Is There a Down Side by Installing a Barometric Damper?

Coal$stayin america · Post by **Coal$stayin america** » Mon. Mar. 28, 2011 10:43 pm

Hello,

I purchased a Riteway 37 wood/coal stove, est mfg 1985, that is not yet installed. I intended to burn wood until my neighbor told me he keeps his coal stove going for days at a time and only loads it twice per day. This sounded remarkable to me since all of my experience has been with wood. The thought of leaving the stove for hours sounded almost magic! Since our conversation I have been reading this great board learning about coal. I really am exited at the thought of buying AMERICAN coal (not imported oil) and heating my house. I am also excited at the stories of how easy coal is to maintain vs a wood fire. Best of all is the price vs oil!

Here is my first hurdle in my coal journey. I have no experience with a barometric damper since I had intended to burn wood. I went to a wood stove (sells coal and a few models of coal stoves) dealer in the next town and asked if I needed a barometric damper for my coal stove. The technician asked me if I had the stoves manual which I do not. He stated I would need that to determine if I needed this damper. He stated if the stove did not require a damper I could risk CO2 poisoning. I searched the web no manual posted or for sale.

Looking over the posts on this board there doesn't seem to be a down side if I installed the damper. If anyone has an opinion on this topic I would appreciate their knowledge. I certainly don't want to poison my family, nor do I want to over heat the stove.

fastcat · Post by **fastcat** » Mon. Mar. 28, 2011 11:43 pm

Is the riteway an air tight stove? If you are going to burn any wood do not use the Baro damper. How strong is the draft in your chimney? This is where the baro comes in, so you can regulate the draft pulling on the stove. I am sure more members will have much more info for you.

jpete · Post by **jpete** » Mon. Mar. 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Good to see a coal convert.

My Harman, technically anyway, doesn't require a barometric damper but it works SOOOOO much better with it.

My first install with this stove, in a different house, I didn't have room for one so I used a manual damper and that worked OK, but obviously, you had to be more hands on.

With any combustion device, there is a risk of CO poisoning but a good detector will minimize the risks. My oil burner has a baro damper on it so it's not any different.

The bottom line is, it depends on your particular stove and chimney. I would plan on installing it, and if for some reason you feel you don't need it, you can cap it.

Freddy · Post by **Freddy** » Tue. Mar. 29, 2011 4:14 am

Welcome!

First, can you post a photo of your stove? And maybe a pic of the inside of it? In order to burn coal it needs cast iron shaker grates, and the air has to come from under the coal. Photos will tell us if your stove can burn coal, and if so, how successful it might do it. Some combo stoves are very poor coal stoves.....some are pretty good.

Generally speaking, yes, you need a barometric damper when burning coal. If you do not use one you will lose a lot of heat up the chimney. If you decide to burn wood for a day you will remove the baro & cap it or at least cover the baro with a few layers of tin foil. Wood makes creosote. Creosote burns. If you have a chimney fire while burning wood a baro is a very bad thing as it feeds air to the fire. Coal makes zero creosote. Along with the baro, a manometer is needed once to set the adjustment of the baro, but most of us keep one installed all the time. The manometer shows the draft. It will warn you If your pipes start to get clogged.

While any fuel can make carbon monoxide, burning coal does make CO. A baro will not stop you from killing yourself. Keeping your stove and pipes clean of ash build up and using a CO detector keeps us alive. You see, coal makes "flyash". It will clog the outgoing horizontal stove pipe and then the CO comes into the house instead of up the chimney. It's easy to care for, but must not be forgotten. Some stove need the pipe cleaned once a month, some once or twice a year. You learn your stove, and you stay healthy & happy.

grizzly2 · Post by **grizzly2** » Tue. Mar. 29, 2011 5:58 am

The baro. is always good for coal heating efficiency, but is particularly important if your stove does not have a thermostaticly controled draft (air intake). For example: my Hitzer coal stove has a draft controled by a mechanical (bi-metalic spring type) thermostat that closes or reduces air intake as stove temps rise beyond the level I have set the thermostat for. This controls stove temperature and reduces heat loss up the chimney. I still use a baro. damper because its action is much quicker and more sensitive to momentary draft fluctuations in the chimney caused by wind. It also adjusts itself more quickly than the thermostat as stove temperatures rise or fall. I have burned my stove with and without a baro. By monitoring flue temperature I can attest to the heat savings by using the baro.

I don't see any downside to the baro. as long as you are not burning wood. Most of us who swithched from wood to coal had thought we would still want to occationally burn wood, but have abandonded that idea when we got spoiled by the ease and cleanliness of burning coal.

Post by **franco b** » Tue. Mar. 29, 2011 12:56 pm

If your draft is marginal the baro will make it worse. It only moderates too strong draft.

grizzly2 · Post by **grizzly2** » Tue. Mar. 29, 2011 2:19 pm

Good point franco b. I forgot about that

Chuck_Steak · Post by **Chuck_Steak** » Wed. Mar. 30, 2011 10:45 pm

I think before you buy and install the baro, you should buy a manometer.
But that is just me.
Because installing the baro without one, is just a guess..
But getting it first, will show you what you what kind of situation you have.

If you discover that you have a pretty steady draft of around .05-.08, with only
momentary spikes on a windy day, you may not want to install the baro "IF" you are
somewhat toying with burning some wood. The baro will get creosote on it,
and not work well.

If your draft only gets to around .03-.05 most of the time, I doubt you will
see any help with a baro.

As some have mentioned, the good thing about the baro, is that you get
a steady draft all the time.
If you are the 'set it and forget' type of person, that is the way to go...
If you need one.

Dan

Cap · Post by **Cap** » Thu. Mar. 31, 2011 7:18 pm

You better get a baro....and then you may choose to foil it! Especially in this warmer damp air.

Baro's are most critical when you flue drafts really well, windy days & sudden changes to the barometric pressure in the atmosphere. Mine stays closed except very cold & dry days. There are many threads discussing this topic.

Coal$stayin america · Post by **Coal$stayin america** » Sat. Apr. 02, 2011 9:29 pm

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Hello Gentlemen,

What a great forum 8 responses! Here is my update;

Fastcat this is an air tight stove. There are gaskets around both doors and the top.
Freddie I have posted pics of the stove and the grates. I was able to find an advertisement for this stove (on this site) and a popular mechanics comparison of coal stoves (I think 1981) where this stove is described as a coal and wood stove.
Grizzly2 I have some type of controlled draft mechanical mechanism on this stove. This week I have been burning wood to get a feel for this stove. What I learned about this mechanism is this, it is labeled for heat more to less. When I turn the knob on this mechanism to lower the temp I found it shuts down the draft and makes my fire smolder.
Franco B the draft is really strong. The stove is in my basement and there are 3 floors of chimney above it.
Chuck-Steak I will buy or borrow a manometer to make sure this is set correctly.
Cap I will foil the barometric damper if I burn wood. I am really looking forward to setting up this stove for coal.
Jpete my house has co2 detector hard wired. In addition I just purchased a stand alone unit just in case.

Thanks again for all the great info. I intend to install a barometric damper in addition to a manual damper. I don't trust the mechanical damper on the stove. It doesn't make sense to me to close off the air to a fire. My thought is I will regulate the draft by the manual damper. If there is a need and I am not tending the stove closely the barometric damper can keep my stove from getting too hot.

I appreciate any thoughts anyone might have on this set up. There is one neat feature on this stove. I would think it is for wood burning but I would appreciate any education you can give me. If you look at he picture of the stove (sorry sideways) there is a knob made of wood on the top right hand side. If I pull this knob a metal door slides inside of the stove allowing the stove to draft from the top of the stove. If I push the knob all the way in the door closes causing the stove to draft about 1/2 way down the fire box where the coals are. This feature is advertised to burn the fuel in the smoke by drawing the smoke through the coals.

Regards

fastcat · Post by **fastcat** » Sat. Apr. 02, 2011 11:01 pm

Coal$stayin america wrote:
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Hello Gentlemen,

What a great forum 8 responses! Here is my update;

Fastcat this is an air tight stove. There are gaskets around both doors and the top.
Freddie I have posted pics of the stove and the grates. I was able to find an advertisement for this stove (on this site) and a popular mechanics comparison of coal stoves (I think 1981) where this stove is described as a coal and wood stove.
Grizzly2 I have some type of controlled draft mechanical mechanism on this stove. This week I have been burning wood to get a feel for this stove. What I learned about this mechanism is this, it is labeled for heat more to less. When I turn the knob on this mechanism to lower the temp I found it shuts down the draft and makes my fire smolder.
Franco B the draft is really strong. The stove is in my basement and there are 3 floors of chimney above it.
Chuck-Steak I will buy or borrow a manometer to make sure this is set correctly.
Cap I will foil the barometric damper if I burn wood. I am really looking forward to setting up this stove for coal.
Jpete my house has co2 detector hard wired. In addition I just purchased a stand alone unit just in case.

Thanks again for all the great info. I intend to install a barometric damper in addition to a manual damper. I don't trust the mechanical damper on the stove. It doesn't make sense to me to close off the air to a fire. My thought is I will regulate the draft by the manual damper. If there is a need and I am not tending the stove closely the barometric damper can keep my stove from getting too hot.

Ok the damper on the stove with the knob is of great importance for burning coal USE IT to set the heat you want from the stove. Add two thermometers one to the top front of the stove and one on the pipe below the baro but above the MPD, using the draft knob you can set the temp of your stove using the thermometer for the heat required in the house, and the one on the stack you can see what is going up the chimney. My answer here is for burning coal

I appreciate any thoughts anyone might have on this set up. There is one neat feature on this stove. I would think it is for wood burning but I would appreciate any education you can give me. If you look at he picture of the stove (sorry sideways) there is a knob made of wood on the top right hand side. If I pull this knob a metal door slides inside of the stove allowing the stove to draft from the top of the stove. If I push the knob all the way in the door closes causing the stove to draft about 1/2 way down the fire box where the coals are. This feature is advertised to burn the fuel in the smoke by drawing the smoke through the coals.

You got me on this one but someone will chime in on this I'm sure.

Regards

cabinover · Post by **cabinover** » Sun. Apr. 03, 2011 9:39 am

I think you guys may be wrong about the manual damper thing. IIRC Riteway stoves are similar to a baseburner in that they route exhaust through another passage before allowing it to go out the chimney. That is what the damper does with the wooden handle.

Open to gas off and load, then close it up and let it go.

I only know this from my father in laws Riteway before he switched to a boiler.

It certainly will crank out the heat with coal though if the above is true.

*-EDIT-*

After looking around I found this PDF file that explains it a little differently. Still, the sliding apparatus is not a damper and shouldn't be counted on as one.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Fi ... way37.pdf/

fastcat · Post by **fastcat** » Sun. Apr. 03, 2011 9:59 am

I wasn't talking about the sliding handle, I was talking about the knob you turn for more heat or less heat, that damper will regulate the burn as to how hot you want the stove. Same deal on the back of the Hitzer, I would assume it is the same on the Riteway.

cabinover · Post by **cabinover** » Sun. Apr. 03, 2011 12:31 pm

OK, just wanted to be sure that the OP knew the slider wasn't a draft control, that's all.

davfel · Post by **davfel** » Thu. Dec. 01, 2011 11:46 pm

hello all,

I also own a Riteway model 37 that I have 2 water jackets welded onto the top and side and hooked up to my boiler. I also put another secondary burn mod on my stove consisting of a valve and 3/4 inch pipe with holes drilled in it on the inside of the stove getting its warm air feed from the jacket that covers the factory secondary burn. I burn both wood and coal. I do not use a barometric damper and I do not want to start any arguments, but they are overated in my opinion. I also do not use a manual damper. I control the heat of my stove with the bimetallic strip that is on the side. There is no need for a barometric or manual damper if you can control the heat of the stove and the heat up the flue with the stove's control, then there is absolutely no need for either damper, because it does not matter where you slow the air down going through the stove, whether it is before the fire or after. As far as keeping more heat in the stove that is a myth. All that is done with a barometric damper is air is pulled from the room and mixes with the stoves exhaust and cools it down keeping the chimney cooler and putting less of a vacuum on the stove because part of the exhaust up ther chimney comes from the room, which in turn, causes the stove to burn slower because there is less draft. (which alkso is an energy loss by the way) Now if you can not control the draft with the stoves control then the dampers are good to get for your stove. Usually that means that the stove is not airtight or has leaks some where and starts to burn out of control, allowing most of the heat to go up the chimney and burning most of your wood or coal. There is one other advantage to a barometric damper is that it is somewhat automatic, but on my stove which is the riteway model 37, the bimetallic thermostat keeps the stove pretty much at one temperature, especially with coal. Wood, on the other hand, fluctuates constantly because the amount of fuel changes very rapidly, even more so when you are burning cleanly. That is, no smoke from the chimney. And, by the way all, just remember the basic principle of any combustion, (outside of wet wood) if it smokes there is too much fuel (wood i.e.) and not enough air and it is not efficient. You then are losing heat up the chimney by not burning all of the volatiles. In the case of anthracite coal you are losing invisible burnable gases up the chimney.

Thanks for your time,

Dave