A Bad Coal Experance Today

 
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ceccil
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Post by ceccil » Sun. Apr. 03, 2011 9:26 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:
ceccil wrote: What would be the difference? You can change the setpoints to whatever you wish. He can set it up to take the readings from the flue or the stove body. I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
I know, I was making joke. ;)
It didn't register!! No big deal. :lol:
SMITTY wrote:I take 20W-50 motor oil & smear it on the pipe. If it gets over 400° it smokes like hell & sets off the smoke detector ... and smells like the '89 Blazer .... so it makes me not want it to happen again. :D
Holy crap Smitty, where do you come up with this stuff? :lol:


 
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LsFarm
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Post by LsFarm » Sun. Apr. 03, 2011 11:52 pm

You can get a BBQ temperature alarm. Meant for cooking but can be used to monitor the flue temperature.

Google Maverick BBQ thermometer, I think you will find it that way..

Greg L

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Mon. Apr. 04, 2011 6:22 pm

wsherrick wrote:Has any one ever considered that opening the ash pit door like that might just be an overall bad practice to begin with? Is it really necessary to do that on a regular basis? I'm not trying to be a smart here, I think some discussion on why it is done and should it be a part of a proper stove tending method would be helpful. Helpful especially for new comers.
I have to agree with you on this Will - Opening the ash pit to facilitate refreshing a hand fed coal stove could be a very bad practice. However, I have thought and thought about it and I can't come up with any different way to accomplish the task within an acceptable length of time. The first step in refreshing a stove is to clear the ash but you never want to shake the stove unless the blue ladies are dancing feverishly. That won't happen if you depend on the air intake valve alone; the air intake valve would have to be so wide open that you may as well have the ash door open. The second step is to add more coal but again you don't want to do that unless the blue ladies are dancing. The way to get the blue ladies dancing again is to open the ash door and allow the draft to find new paths through the coal bed. If you waited for the airflow to take care of business with the air intake valve set at normal it would take F..O..R..E..V..E..R.. Who has the time to do that while trying to get out of the house in the morning or getting the kids off to school. Yes, you could just wait to service the stove in the evening but then you are tired and dealing with family and dinner now you've added bringing an idling stove up to normal operating temperatures; even with the ashpan door open that's going to take time. By this time the ash is going to be so thick that tons will come down and with it a heck of a lot of the fire's coals. Again, depending in the air intake valve alone to refresh the stove will take forever. I've found it easier to service the stove twice a day when idling - I only empty the ash pan once, though.

This isn't all that much of an issue during the coldest months - the blue ladies dance most of the time - but in the fall and spring when we are idling our stoves for most of the day it's a different story. An idling fire is by definition is one burning so low that you can look at it and think it dead. The question becomes how do you revive the fire quickly in order to increase the heat output. Of course the answer is introduce huge amounts of airflow through the coal bed. The means opening the ash pan door to introduce the needed increase in air flow. To make this safer the answer for me has been a timer that I can put around my neck or clip on my collar. Using that I can allow the stove to refresh while multi-tasking things like breakfast, getting everyone out the door or to bed on time or whatever. The timer is not a guarantee of safety by any means but it works for me.

I'm interested in hearing what others have to say about this practice. Lisa

 
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Post by lobsterman » Mon. Apr. 04, 2011 10:02 pm

I guess I never had a problem with gently shaking down an idling coal bed or topping it off. Of course, I open the air vents for a few minutes before the shake and probably more importantly, as the shake is happening there is good air feed. The worst thing I would want to do is make a slow burning fire very hot because it takes so long to slow it down again.

 
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wsherrick
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Post by wsherrick » Mon. Apr. 04, 2011 10:45 pm

lobsterman wrote:I guess I never had a problem with gently shaking down an idling coal bed or topping it off. Of course, I open the air vents for a few minutes before the shake and probably more importantly, as the shake is happening there is good air feed. The worst thing I would want to do is make a slow burning fire very hot because it takes so long to slow it down again.
I open the ash pit dampers all the way for a minute, put the stove in direct draft. I then close the direct dampers to shake, then open them again takes 30 seconds. I load the stove then set the dampers to where I want the heat, put the stove back in base burner mode, set the pipe damper and I am done. The whole process takes maybe 3 minutes tops. The fire will then raise to the temperature I set it for and it's good for another 15 hours at the least. There is never a need to goose the fire by opening up the ash pit door. The Glenwood has enough mass to smooth out the transition from loading the coal until it is up to speed without a great dip in heat production. I believe that opening the ash pit door to goose the fire leads to other problems such as back puffing, etc. besides the risk of leaving the door open and coming back to an out of control fire, a ruined stove or worse.

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Tue. Apr. 05, 2011 12:30 pm

lobsterman wrote:I guess I never had a problem with gently shaking down an idling coal bed or topping it off. Of course, I open the air vents for a few minutes before the shake and probably more importantly, as the shake is happening there is good air feed. The worst thing I would want to do is make a slow burning fire very hot because it takes so long to slow it down again.
I like Will's term "goosing" the fire. I don't see much difference in opening the air vents for a few minutes or opening the ash pan door. I had never thought of it from the view of "making a slow burning fire very hot because it takes so long to slow it down again." I can see how my method could slip into that very easily. Especially since I had been getting the blue ladies dancing again by reopening the ash door after filling the fire box to the top of the firebricks . On hindsight that seems unnecessary, I mean, I've already assured the coalbed was refreshed by opening the ash pan door and having the blue ladies dancing. I've established new paths for the air flow by shaking it. The new coal should just sink into the coalbed as it burns throughout the day. As long as there is an air supply the fire should burn quietly throughout the day - right? Actually, I tried that this morning and the fire has been maintaining a 200* stove front temperature despite my not getting the blue ladies to dance in the new coal. I don't know how not getting the blue ladies dancing frantically in the new coal will impact the issue of puff backs, though. It would seem to me that not have the flames to fire up the volatile gases would lead to more puff backs. I may have to add more over the fire draft to counter that.

Thanks for providing your insight. Boy, there's always something new to learn when burning coal. Lisa

 
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Post by captcaper » Thu. Apr. 07, 2011 7:38 pm

I have built in detectors in the house and it doesn' take much heat from the stove building up a good fire to set it off. I didn't think these detectors would do that when I moved in here 6 years ago. Also I have a watch alarm . But the biggest thing is I have excellent protection on walls and always keep things more then 3 ft from any angle from the stove.


 
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Post by lowfog01 » Thu. Apr. 07, 2011 8:10 pm

captcaper wrote: But the biggest thing is I have excellent protection on walls and always keep things more then 3 ft from any angle from the stove.
I had this reinforced the other day when I went to move the rubber bucket I keep my indoor supply of coal in. It had been outside the clearance to combustibles but it still was to hot to touch. It definitely made an impact on me. I'm out for the season but I'll think of somewhere else to store that bucket next year. Lisa

 
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Post by Cap » Thu. Apr. 07, 2011 9:07 pm

Try and make a habit of only leaving the door open to bring back a weak fire which may not have too much unburnt coal still in the firebox. This is what I do and I certainly have CRS. Never fill up the stove & walk away. I fire up a weak fire for about 30 mins, and then I fill the box & slam her shut!

 
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Post by homecomfort » Sat. Apr. 09, 2011 11:05 pm

I have a low drafting shorter chimney anyway, so I tried a small draft assist type blower. rheostat to control speed, and noise, draft damper, and a snap switch that cuts electric at 350 degree stack pipe temp, comes back on at 275. it seems to keep minimum temp, like when ash builds up and haven't shaken down , but keeps assist from getting too hot. this way, I never open ash door to restart fire.

 
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Post by rouxzy » Sun. Apr. 10, 2011 10:05 am

Just a thought here, and this is how I came to the conclusion that opening the ash door to get the fire back up isn't necessary. When you want to raise the temperature using a thermostat is it better to raise the setting to 90 thining the temp will increase quicker? If you're pre heating an over to 350 does it get to that temp quicker by setting the thermostat to 400? The answer is no, then why open the ash door? I just open my vent wide open and the fire comes up just as quick but is limited as to how hot it will get. Add to this that we all have baro dampers installed which will aide in limiting the over firing effect. Like I said, just a thought here.
Tom

 
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Post by lowfog01 » Mon. Apr. 11, 2011 10:50 am

Just to clarify what I mean by "refreshing the fire" by opening the ashpan door. I do not open my ashpan door to create a rip roaring fire with a ton of blue ladies and a dramatic increase in the stove's operating temperature. In fact, my stove's operating temperature does not increase but 30 or 40 degrees throughout the whole process. When I say I open the ashpan door to refresh the fire I mean I am temporarily increasing the amount of air moving through the coalbed in order for the fire to become stronger and more capable of quickly igniting the new coal. That only takes 5 to 7 mins to achieve that by opening the ashpan door. Yes, the same thing could be achieved by opening the air intake value but I choose to use the ashpan door so that I can watch how the coals are reacting. If you forget to close either one at the end of the maintenance you'll get the same overfire situation. I think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Take care, Lisa

 
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Post by smokeyCityTeacher » Mon. Apr. 11, 2011 6:26 pm

oliver power wrote:Your experience is exactly why you always read on this site; "Never Ever Walk Away And Leave The Ash Pan Door Open". You can stand in front of the stove for 45 minutes with the ash pan door open, trying to get the fire perked up. Or, you can walk away for 10 minutes, and burn the house down. Many of us have done the same thing you have. It's scary! Lisa's timer idea can't be any simpler. Place it around your neck like the metal of honor. When it goes off, STOP what you're doing! Check your stove imediately. Close the ash pan door, and hang the timer by stove. My self, I never leave the stove without closing the ash pan door. And still, I'll go back and double/triple check.
Why not get that stubborn fire going by saying out loud so the stove can hear it: "Im gonna go get a cup of coffee now"

Then sneak back in in 5 minutes to roaring fire. Yeah that'll do it.

 
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Post by CoalPB » Wed. Apr. 13, 2011 11:18 am

I slip on a white tennis sweat band on my wrist anytime I have the ash door cracked open.

 
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Post by lowfog01 » Wed. Apr. 13, 2011 12:46 pm

CoalPB wrote:I slip on a white tennis sweat band on my wrist anytime I have the ash door cracked open.
This a great idea! Sometimes I've been known to not hear the timer going off. I'm going to grab a wrist band next time I'm at Target or Walmart. Thanks, Lisa


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