AHS S130 Coalgun- Puffbacks & Explosions

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Fri. Nov. 18, 2011 10:19 pm

I agree a timed purge would go a long way to cure it.


 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Fri. Nov. 18, 2011 10:30 pm

coaledsweat wrote: Stop ashing and get the fire up where it belongs and the puffbacks will go away. Then adjust the ashing to keep it there. Half of the combustion tube should be filled with ash. If it isn't, then get used to puffbacks.
Sorta what I was saying back a ways in the thread...
McGiever wrote:I would switch off the grate switch and run the hot water coil straight down a drain with a hose and get comfortable nearby and watch the fire climb and get REALLY hot. When it climbs high enough to be near even w/ the sight tube...turn the water hose off and switch back on the grate switch and set ashing controller to 130*.

And now your ashing controller will behave in a whole new way...give it some time to stabilize before making any adjustments.

This will be the quickest and most painless way to get it set correctly.

 
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ValterBorges
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Post by ValterBorges » Fri. Nov. 18, 2011 10:33 pm

Yanche, you should make a product patent and sell it.

 
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Freddy
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Post by Freddy » Sat. Nov. 19, 2011 4:56 am

Yanche wrote:I've given considerable thought how I would engineer a solution .....Your thoughts?
Booms occur when A: the fan shuts off and B: a flame licks up.

Three years ago I built my "anti-boom device". It is a timer, a relay, and a solenoid (actually two timers & three relays, but I didn't know what I was doing). Each time the fan shuts off, instead of shutting off, it initiates a ten second purge. The solenoid slams the door open and the timer runs the solenoid and fan for ten seconds. I have never had a boom while using the anti boom device. Heyyyy.... I could be a millionaire! I just need to patent it and sell it to a hundred people for ten grand apiece. :)

Attachments

anti-boom prototype.jpg
.JPG | 115.4KB | anti-boom prototype.jpg

 
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Freddy
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Post by Freddy » Sat. Nov. 19, 2011 5:02 am

PS... the anti boom device pictured is the prototype. Since then I changed the solenoid and added a timer and two relays. The one in the picture... well...had issues. You see, I don't understand everything I know about timers & relays. I built it so each time the fan shut off, the anti-boom device ran. So, I hooked it up and tried it: When the fan "shut off" the anti-boom opened the flapper and the fan ran for ten seconds and then shut off...and the anti-boom opened the flapper and the fan ran for ten seconds and then shut off...and the anti-boom opened the flapper and the fan ran for ten seconds and then shut off...and ... Oops.... Another timer, another relay and some sort of diode & now it works...correctly.

 
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Post by whistlenut » Sat. Nov. 19, 2011 7:25 am

Aren't you guys going off the 'deep end' with this topic? 40 years and it has happened twice....and I know what the issue is/was.............It is not like plating with dynamite!
Proper draft and a small vent hole in the door. Once again PROPER DRAFT, and for those not listening..........PROPER DRAFT.
If that means a draft inducer, then do it. Hell I hook them up in a driveway, parking lot with no stack and test burn for a day or two.......efm's, ahs's. AA', Yellow Flames, Keystokers. GJ's.

IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, no matter how long you FLOG the idea, it still is not rocket science, guys, (and gals). Please...... :!: :idea: :idea: :idea: :shock:
Last edited by whistlenut on Sat. Nov. 19, 2011 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by watkinsdr » Sat. Nov. 19, 2011 8:50 am

I agree with Whislenut... It's all about having enough and proper draft. I'm convinced my explosion was caused by my incorrectly calibrated Field Controls type M baro---which was caused by me!! When I was installing my new baro this morning---I followed the directions this time!!

1. Field Controls Type M baros are preset at their factory to 0.06" draft which is perfect: UNLESS EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES PREVAIL DON'T ADJUST OR PLAY WITH THEM!

2. On 6" baros---do not touch the bolt/nut/weight in the upper part of the gate. The weight was used for coarse adjustment at the factory. DON'T ADJUST IT OR PLAY WITH IT!

3. If you "accidently" move any of the weights on the front or back sides of the plate---you just screwed everything up!! Good luck getting the thing operating again without much trial and error... Mostly error...

Good Luck, KISS, and God Bless.


 
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Post by Bob » Sat. Nov. 19, 2011 9:54 am

McGiever wrote:
coaledsweat wrote: Stop ashing and get the fire up where it belongs and the puffbacks will go away. Then adjust the ashing to keep it there. Half of the combustion tube should be filled with ash. If it isn't, then get used to puffbacks.
Sorta what I was saying back a ways in the thread...
McGiever wrote:I would switch off the grate switch and run the hot water coil straight down a drain with a hose and get comfortable nearby and watch the fire climb and get REALLY hot. When it climbs high enough to be near even w/ the sight tube...turn the water hose off and switch back on the grate switch and set ashing controller to 130*.

And now your ashing controller will behave in a whole new way...give it some time to stabilize before making any adjustments.

This will be the quickest and most painless way to get it set correctly.
I think my experience is consistent with the comments above--that the key variable to eliminating puff backs is proper adjustment of the level of the fire--and the level of the fire is controlled by the ashing setting.

So my question is who has contrary experience. Clearly Whistlenut and watkinsdr attribute the issue to draft control and, in Whistlenuts comments, proper use of the hole in the flapper door.

My personal experience is that with proper draft control and with the hole in the flapper door full open I still got puff backs until I moved the level of the fire UP by adjusting the thermograte SV valuve DOWN. I have been operating about 4 weeks so far this year without a puff back--a record I haven't ever come close to before. But it will take a couple of seasons with new coal deliveries to give me a reasonable degree of confidence that I finally understand and can control the problem.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Sat. Nov. 19, 2011 10:04 am

Ahhhh, the concept of understanding it all ;) I find with my stove, new coal ( always Blaschak) new seasons (always NYS) I have to play a little bit adjustment wise until I get er right. It's usually different every season--do I understand all the variables??? I think not. But I do know that it just is what it is & get my stove tuned accordingly. Ain't the consistent warmth just grand. :D

 
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Post by ValterBorges » Sun. Nov. 20, 2011 5:31 pm

The only time I had a puffback was when I had the tombstone off, hole open, fan is running for a while, walkout door was open, it was windy out causing some weird drafts and I manually opened the door and interrupted the seal, so the chamber was flooded with fresh air. I was going to take a little piece of wood I picked up from the floor and throw it in. Anyway basically some ash puffed out thru the whole like the boiler farted. Might be worst if the hole was not open.

Wasnt even close to the boom the scag makes if I don't idle her down.

 
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Post by ValterBorges » Sun. Nov. 20, 2011 5:36 pm

Rob R. wrote: Is the inspection door clearance set correctly?
What is the correct settings for this?

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Nov. 20, 2011 6:33 pm

The sight tube covers spring and nut should be adjusted so that when the fan is on the sight tube door should seal tightly all the way around the sight tube. On page 17 the manual says "When the fan is running, and unit is full of coal, the sight hole cover must be drawn against the cover seat automatically and held there during the time the fan runs. This is necessary to force combustion air through the fire bed rather than across the top." The "closed position" picture on the same page of the manual shows the sight tube cover drawn tightly against the "seat" when the fan is on.

The manual makes no mention of the tiny rotating window cover within the sight tube cover. Opening the small rotating window to any degree would in effect defeat any good seal between the sight tube and the sight tube cover. However, it does seem to be of apparent benefit if you are experiencing puff-backs to leave this tiny window cover open to some degree. Jeff Gingerich told me I should close mine completely, but primarily due to this thread I have not gotten up the nerve to do this, and instead I have it roughly 1/3 open. However, I believe that I'm losing burning efficiency by not listening to Jeff's advice.

 
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Yanche
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Post by Yanche » Sun. Nov. 20, 2011 9:03 pm

lsayre wrote:Opening the small rotating window to any degree would in effect defeat any good seal between the sight tube and the sight tube cover. However, it does seem to be of apparent benefit if you are experiencing puff-backs to leave this tiny window cover open to some degree. Jeff Gingerich told me I should close mine completely, but primarily due to this thread I have not gotten up the nerve to do this, and instead I have it roughly 1/3 open. However, I believe that I'm losing burning efficiency by not listening to Jeff's advice.
What burning efficiency do you think you are going to loose? It's very likely the combustion blower is supplying more air than is required for combustion. So what difference does it make if a small fraction of that air comes via the flapper door opening rather than up through the bed of ashes? It's unlikely the small amount would cool the hot gases that pass through the boiler tubes. Run a test. Measure the flue gas temperature in your stovepipe and see if you can detect a change, rotary port open vs. closed. My guess is you can't tell the difference.

 
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Post by rychw » Mon. Nov. 21, 2011 7:47 am

I had an explosion yesterday when the ash grate was dumping without the fan running. The outside temp was high @60 and the fan hadn't run for a while. The thermo ash started dumping and after some fresh coal entered the tube, boom. Again, I'm convinced that the ash can't dump without the fan running.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 21, 2011 8:12 am

rychw wrote:I had an explosion yesterday when the ash grate was dumping without the fan running. The outside temp was high @60 and the fan hadn't run for a while. The thermo ash started dumping and after some fresh coal entered the tube, boom. Again, I'm convinced that the ash can't dump without the fan running.
I thought you were going to rewire that and experiment? What kind of draft to you observe when the outside temperature is in the 60's?


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