Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:42 pm

lsayre wrote:Perhaps the problem is compounded for the AHS by the manual insisting that the LC setpoint be maintained at (from memory here) between 140 degrees and 120 degrees. This narrow range of temperature setpoint options may not be sufficient to cover all of the various coals available.


One thought I had back many pages ago was that it was perhaps possible that the factory had used a incorrect/mismatched thermocouple wire type. The T/C wire must match what is programmed in the controller and there are many types of T/C wire out there.
:?: Is it possible that back when AHS ownership transferred that the new owner "goofed" :?:

If all AHS owners would check the color of each of the 2 wires between the T/C and the 16C controller and report back, we might see if that could be an issue. Could be Type J,white and red...or Type K, yellow and red...or who knows???

Then, using the 16C's programming menu check and read if the "Input" matches the type T/C wire found.(J or K)
You want the 16C setting to match the T/C wire that you found on your boiler.
For help checking and changing programming there is a Quick Start Guide online at Dwyer... http://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/4C-8C-16C-QuickStart_IOM.pdf
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:30 pm

I'm amazed that the AHS manual section which addreses this matter (as seen above) makes no reference to the ash content of the coal playing any part in the puff-backs. I run mine all summer on 0.02" of WC (and sometimes even 0.01" of WC), and I don't get summer puff-backs. In fact my draft was only 0.02" this morning due to it being 60 degrees at 6:00 AM today here, and the boiler not having fired for awhile.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:41 pm

greenftechn wrote: All new Coal Guns come with controls necessary to maintain the fire in the correct position in the coal pot.


We both agree on this! But does the operating manual instruct the user regarding the height of the fire to be maintained in the fire tube, or how to know when it is low, or when it is high, or how to change it, and why to even bother with attempting to change it? And does it offer the leeway (within the confines of 120 degrees to 140 degrees for the LC) to accomplish this goal?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: macdabs On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:43 pm

I am at the end of my rope and do not know what to do next!
I came home from a long day and here my carbon Monoxide alarm outside my shop :o . The tombstone cover was on the floor,the flapper was bent on the front of the sight tube with coal on the floor ! I lost another RC Baro not to mention my new chimney cap is all bent.

:mad: :mad: What can I do before this explodes and causes harm or burns my shop down !!! I am so lost for words and upset that a manufacture has no solution for a known potential danger and I have done everything as instructed to operate this boiler correctly! :( :(

I do not know what to do? I feel that I am placing my property and life in danger and have no idea on how or what to try next!

Sorry to rant ,
Thanks,
Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:59 pm

Wow, I haven't had a single puff-back since last March, and the puff-backs I have experienced have done no physical damage to anything, so mine must have been extremely mild by comparison to what you have experienced several times now.

Have you tried lowering your ashing SV and narrowing your ashing hysteresis in order to raise your fire level? Are you confident that you have at least 0.02" of WC for chimney draft?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: macdabs On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:34 pm

lsayre wrote:Wow, I haven't had a single puff-back since last March, and the puff-backs I have experienced have done no physical damage to anything, so mine must have been extremely mild by comparison to what you have experienced several times now.

Have you tried lowering your ashing SV and narrowing your ashing hysteresis in order to raise your fire level? Are you confident that you have at least 0.02" of WC for chimney draft?



I have my settings at 110 and ashing at 3 per my last conversation with Darren last heating season. I keep the hopper at 1/2 to 3/4 filled all the time and have a digital manometer with over .04 -06 draft. I burn pea Blackschach coal that is dry in the boiler room. The entire set up from the plumbing,double wall flue pipe including the boiler room are beyond first class. The boiler is heating both my shop and my house that is 240 ft from the shop. Yesterdays temp was in the 60 's and today started out at 54* and went to low 40* tonight. I check the sight tube every morning and evening when I come home. I do not know what else to do?

Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:38 pm

macdabs wrote:I am at the end of my rope and do not know what to do next!
I came home from a long day and here my carbon Monoxide alarm outside my shop :o . The tombstone cover was on the floor,the flapper was bent on the front of the sight tube with coal on the floor ! I lost another RC Baro not to mention my new chimney cap is all bent.

:mad: :mad: What can I do before this explodes and causes harm or burns my shop down !!! I am so lost for words and upset that a manufacture has no solution for a known potential danger and I have done everything as instructed to operate this boiler correctly! :( :(

I do not know what to do? I feel that I am placing my property and life in danger and have no idea on how or what to try next!

Sorry to rant ,
Thanks,
Mac


Bottom Line...

Too much or excessive ashing is the cause.

Now, what is the remedy???

IMO...AHS should replace the Love Controller, with the thermocouple complete and the solid state relay.
That will assure that no parts of the old are left suspect.
Perhaps the ashing motors RPM's and sprocket tooth count need verified too, if not already verified.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:53 pm

This one is indeed a mystery, yet it must be solved. Blaschak generally has a mainstream normal level of ash and volatiles, so a midrange SV setting of 130 degrees should normally suffice, but you are set at 20 degrees below the midrange and still you are experiencing problems with a fire that is too low (meaning as McGiver has stated that there is not enough ash below your fire, due to excessive ashing).

McGiver may have pegged it earlier when he recognized that the LC has to be set up properly for the specific type of thermocouple in use. That being either J or K. If the LC is not set for reading the right type of thermocouple it is also not reading the correct temperature(s) of the ash grate.

This sounds like a case where an AHS Technician should come out and run a diagnostic check.
Last edited by lsayre on Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:59 pm

macdabs wrote:
lsayre wrote:Wow, I haven't had a single puff-back since last March, and the puff-backs I have experienced have done no physical damage to anything, so mine must have been extremely mild by comparison to what you have experienced several times now.

Have you tried lowering your ashing SV and narrowing your ashing hysteresis in order to raise your fire level? Are you confident that you have at least 0.02" of WC for chimney draft?



I have my settings at 110 and ashing at 3 per my last conversation with Darren last heating season. I keep the hopper at 1/2 to 3/4 filled all the time and have a digital manometer with over .04 -06 draft. I burn pea Blackschach coal that is dry in the boiler room. The entire set up from the plumbing,double wall flue pipe including the boiler room are beyond first class. The boiler is heating both my shop and my house that is 240 ft from the shop. Yesterdays temp was in the 60 's and today started out at 54* and went to low 40* tonight. I check the sight tube every morning and evening when I come home. I do not know what else to do?

Mac


How long has the boiler been running? Did you start it with a full tube of coal?

Are you considering a boiler swap?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: macdabs On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:26 pm

This is my third season with the boiler. I fired the boiler up Saturday morning heating both the house and shop as usual. The dumped the ash pan Tuesday evening and everything looked great. The boiler will be fine for weeks without any problems. As soon as I feel comfortable I end up with damage like today.


The fumes in the garage from operating for who knows how long were un real . The shop is a 40'x80' and it burned a good half a hopper since the baro blew off and the sight door flap got bent open. As of now I would never take a chance of having such a unit in my home. The users that have one in their house are braver than me.

Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: Bob On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:25 pm

macdabs--if you haven't fully verified the programming of the controller I suggest that you do so. For example, if the controller is set up for Centigrade rather than Fahrenheit the problems you are having could occur because you are presumably setting SV assuming Fahrenheit.

When you say "everything looked great"--does that include fire height? If it does it would suggest to me some sort of intermittent problem that disrupts fire height--perhaps a wiring problem or a sensor.

A fire height that is too high will result in a fire that burns up into the hopper or an out fire--both less of a problem that the kind of puff backs you are getting.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: rychw On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:33 pm

macdabs wrote: What can I do before this explodes and causes harm or burns my shop down !!! I am so lost for words and upset that a manufacture has no solution for a known potential danger and I have done everything as instructed to operate this boiler correctly!

I do not know what to do? I feel that I am placing my property and life in danger and have no idea on how or what to try next!


I have a friend that installed his 130 at the same time I did 7 years ago and he has had explosions that caused his chimney to implode! His solution is to turn off the boiler power EVERY time he leaves his house. No kidding. He has tried to solve the puff back issue like I have but is too concerned that his house will burn down to leave the boiler running when he is not home. Macdabs, maybe you need to consider turning off your boiler when you leave until you reduce the severity of the explosions. My puff backs are smaller and less dangerous after I rewired the ash dump motor to run only when the fan is running and slowed down my ash dump motor speed with a rheostat. I removed my barometric damper and sealed and screwed my stove pipe joints to create a stable sealed system. The result is fewer puff backs with small amounts of fly ash outside the tube plate.
rychw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: 130

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: macdabs On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:51 am

I have a friend that installed his 130 at the same time I did 7 years ago and he has had explosions that caused his chimney to implode! His solution is to turn off the boiler power EVERY time he leaves his house. No kidding. He has tried to solve the puff back issue like I have but is too concerned that his house will burn down to leave the boiler running when he is not home. Macdabs, maybe you need to consider turning off your boiler when you leave until you reduce the severity of the explosions. My puff backs are smaller and less dangerous after I rewired the ash dump motor to run only when the fan is running and slowed down my ash dump motor speed with a rheostat. I removed my barometric damper and sealed and screwed my stove pipe joints to create a stable sealed system. The result is fewer puff backs with small amounts of fly ash outside the tube plate.[/quote]

I have my single wall into the double SS flue all screwed together and sealer around all the joints. I can't afford to shut the boiler off cause I need heat in my shop and home! :lol: :lol: I would think shutting the boiler down and turning it back on could be worse.
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:16 am

Macdabs, is your Coal Gun wired to ash only when the fan is running (regardless of the ash grate temperature as seen on the LC display)? If it is ashing based only upon the LC, then I suggest this modification. A few others on this forum have seen improvement from this modification.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: macdabs On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:24 am

lsayre wrote:Macdabs, is your Coal Gun wired to ash only when the fan is running (regardless of the ash grate temperature as seen on the LC display)? If it is ashing based only upon the LC, then I suggest this modification. A few others on this forum have seen improvement from this modification.


Larry,
I have made no modifications from how it came from the factory. The only thing I have changes is the SV settings have been lowered from the factory to 110 / 03 .

Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260