Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:43 am

macdabs wrote:
lsayre wrote:Macdabs, is your Coal Gun wired to ash only when the fan is running (regardless of the ash grate temperature as seen on the LC display)? If it is ashing based only upon the LC, then I suggest this modification. A few others on this forum have seen improvement from this modification.


Larry,
I have made no modifications from how it came from the factory. The only thing I have changes is the SV settings have been lowered from the factory to 110 / 03 .

Mac


AHS has provided instructions on how to make this modification to others upon request, and it is an easy modification. If your boiler is a recent AHS model with UL listing and ASME 'H' stamp certification, then it came form the factory wired to ash only when the fan is running.

Silly question, but is your L4006A setting your boilers standard operating limits, or is your L4082B serving that function? The wiring diagram that came with mine states that the L4006A is for high limit, and the L4082B is for operating limit, but amazingly the diagram is incorrect.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: NWBuilder On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:48 pm

I had my most significant puff back to date that I am aware of. We were having our family breakfast this morning when BANG!!! I have had some in the past but they were truly just puffs. The only thing I noticed this AM was my hopper was only half full. I know it is time to shut down and clean the beast for the season and maybe that has some input but otherwise it runs fairly smooth. It is wired to only ash when the blower runs and it is set to ash at 108 with 5* variance. It kicks on at 160 and shuts off at 170. Summer temps but will push to 170 to 180 after cleaning. I can live with puffs, not so keen on Bangs!!
NWBuilder
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Ahs 130
Coal Size/Type: Burning Pea anthracite

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:00 pm

I have an Axeman, nothing but Anthrastat switch and click counts for ashing control...but I have a Thermocouple clamped on side of Anthrastat for digital reading for my convenience and it is set for 90* and boiler ashes w/ each fan cycle and has never stopped ashing since light-up on Weds. ... reads 85* right now...fire is burning nice and staying high.
Oh, and running 2 clicks.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:52 pm

McGiever wrote:I have an Axeman, nothing but Anthrastat switch and click counts for ashing control...but I have a Thermocouple clamped on side of Anthrastat for digital reading for my convenience and it is set for 90* and boiler ashes w/ each fan cycle and has never stopped ashing since light-up on Weds. ... reads 85* right now...fire is burning nice and staying high.
Oh, and running 2 clicks.


I would expect the fire to be very high with a 90F setpoint on the ashing control.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:47 am

Rob R. wrote:
McGiever wrote:I have an Axeman, nothing but Anthrastat switch and click counts for ashing control...but I have a Thermocouple clamped on side of Anthrastat for digital reading for my convenience and it is set for 90* and boiler ashes w/ each fan cycle and has never stopped ashing since light-up on Weds. ... reads 85* right now...fire is burning nice and staying high.
Oh, and running 2 clicks.


I would expect the fire to be very high with a 90F setpoint on the ashing control.


I am a believer in setting to a setting that gives the fire postion that is required/desired...regardless of the current mfg'r/manual's recommendations. Reason being, the mfg'r has difficulties putting in writing a "one size fits all " statement for such a highly variable situation.

How could the mfg'r compensate for a whole list of variables?

Coal qualities or properties vary widely
The size load(s) being heated...is full or partial output capacity required or somewhere in between?
Mass or water capacity of the system or zones...some systems have huge amount in house piping, some huge in buried underground piping
Draft properties/measurements of chimney...these alone can fluctuate very widlely
How well maintained the boiler and associated equipment is being kept

There are more for this I'm sure...
Point is, How would the mfg'r make an accurate statement in a published operators manual to the Owner's of mfg'rs equipment, as to what setting is right for their unique installations?
This appears to be a `very slippery slope` :roll:

In the end, an owner of this type of equipment is on his own to seek and find his installation's `sweet spot` irregardless of mfr'rs published settings.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:41 pm

Good post and very good advice.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:40 pm

I wasn't questioning your setpoint, sorry if it came off that way. The manufacturing gives you a starting point, it is up to the installer/user to adjust as needed. I think you are the only person that I have come across that is running that low of an ashing setpoint on an AA...but as you said in your post, there are a lot of variables that can influence things. Underfed/inclined bed stokers require a similar judgement call with the air setting.

McGiever wrote:
Rob R. wrote:
McGiever wrote:I have an Axeman, nothing but Anthrastat switch and click counts for ashing control...but I have a Thermocouple clamped on side of Anthrastat for digital reading for my convenience and it is set for 90* and boiler ashes w/ each fan cycle and has never stopped ashing since light-up on Weds. ... reads 85* right now...fire is burning nice and staying high.
Oh, and running 2 clicks.


I would expect the fire to be very high with a 90F setpoint on the ashing control.


I am a believer in setting to a setting that gives the fire postion that is required/desired...regardless of the current mfg'r/manual's recommendations. Reason being, the mfg'r has difficulties putting in writing a "one size fits all " statement for such a highly variable situation.

How could the mfg'r compensate for a whole list of variables?

Coal qualities or properties vary widely
The size load(s) being heated...is full or partial output capacity required or somewhere in between?
Mass or water capacity of the system or zones...some systems have huge amount in house piping, some huge in buried underground piping
Draft properties/measurements of chimney...these alone can fluctuate very widlely
How well maintained the boiler and associated equipment is being kept

There are more for this I'm sure...
Point is, How would the mfg'r make an accurate statement in a published operators manual to the Owner's of mfg'rs equipment, as to what setting is right for their unique installations?
This appears to be a `very slippery slope` :roll:

In the end, an owner of this type of equipment is on his own to seek and find his installation's `sweet spot` irregardless of mfr'rs published settings.


Good post.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:15 pm

Rob R. wrote:I wasn't questioning your setpoint, sorry if it came off that way. The manufacturing gives you a starting point, it is up to the installer/user to adjust as needed. I think you are the only person that I have come across that is running that low of an ashing setpoint on an AA...but as you said in your post, there are a lot of variables that can influence things. Underfed/inclined bed stokers require a similar judgement call with the air setting.


Good post.


No offense taken Rob. :)

I am surprised that for 5 days now it has never even hit the 90* setting mark...it has been holding around ~86* and ashing the entire time the fan runs. May find when colder temps hit I'll need to raise setting up some for a thicker fire.

Note: Need mention that I do run a 42 gal. indirect DWH on a zone besides the house heating.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:39 pm

After reading this post again, I am wondering how much ash you are getting, and if any unburnt coal is making it's way through. I concur that the height of the fire and ashing are to be watched closely during setup, and I'm wondering if you are not getting any clinkers, or raw coal bypass. How many teeth is the ashing arm grabbing? If it's three, I am surprised you aren't having black rocks in the pan. If one click, you may have control of the wild beast. An Anthrastat paralleled with a thermocouple makes complete sense. Unless you have just accurately calibrated the anthrastat, you can run it where you like it to be set. :!:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: greenftechn On: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:09 am

In the end, an owner of this type of equipment is on his own to seek and find his installation's `sweet spot` irregardless of mfr'rs published settings.


This, but with the very necessary addition of our strong commitment to work with any customer who is having issues.
greenftechn
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Coal Gun S130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska Kodiak
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Wood Gun
Stove/Furnace Make: Alternate Heating Systems
Stove/Furnace Model: E100

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: rychw On: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:43 pm

greenftechn wrote:
In the end, an owner of this type of equipment is on his own to seek and find his installation's `sweet spot` irregardless of mfr'rs published settings.


This, but with the very necessary addition of our strong commitment to work with any customer who is having issues.


What exactly is AHS doing today to solve the widespread explosion problem that occurs in the majority of AHS coalgun boilers? Does AHS agree that there is the problem of explosion of coal gas build up during the introduction of coal to the burn tube? I have been a participant on this thread since the beginning and have read each submission. My hope has been that AHS would let all us coalgun owners know that the company is actively working on a solution that can be retrofitted on all our boilers. If you read the thread, us owners love the boilers but are frustrated and scared.
rychw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: 130

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: greenftechn On: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:53 am

What exactly is AHS doing today to solve the widespread explosion problem..


We are dealing with these on a case by case basis. There are solutions in each case, but given that there are multiple factors, including coal source, and the individual user's management of the boiler, there is no blanket fix. Generally, draft, correct positioning of the fire, and avoiding too rapid introduction of fresh coal to the fire are the keys. Anyone using the Coal Gun is free to contact us for support for this or other issues.
greenftechn
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Coal Gun S130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska Kodiak
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Wood Gun
Stove/Furnace Make: Alternate Heating Systems
Stove/Furnace Model: E100

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: rychw On: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:50 pm

greenftechn wrote:We are dealing with these on a case by case basis. There are solutions in each case, but given that there are multiple factors, including coal source, and the individual user's management of the boiler, there is no blanket fix. Generally, draft, correct positioning of the fire, and avoiding too rapid introduction of fresh coal to the fire are the keys. Anyone using the Coal Gun is free to contact us for support for this or other issues.


As I was opening the forum I had an explosion due to too much fresh coal being added. Please tell me what else I can do to stop the explosions. Here is a summary of my situation. I have a hopper fed AHS 130 with a belt driven fan and Fuji controller. I have a dhw coil. I burn Blaschak pea coal. I have tried Reading and two other brands and the Blaschak reduces the frequency of explosions. I have rewired the ash dump motor to run only if the fan is running. I have installed a rheostat to reduce the speed of the ash dump motor. I have a terrific draft from my 35 foot chimney. It has been inspected by professionals and certified in good condition. I have drilled and installed the vent for the tube inspection plate. At this point I have frequent puff back and regular explosions. The explosions occur only when too much new coal is allowed to enter the tube. So at this point I have no draft issues, I have done all I can to raise the position of the fire up the tube, use a high quality correct sized coal and constantly maintain (my wife says obsessively baby) the boiler. I clean the boiler thoroughly at the end of the heating season and vacuum out fly ash in my horizontal smoke pipe (a 2 foot section) twice per heating season. I maintain the operation of the boiler throughout the day and evening. At this point what else can I do to stop the explosions?
rychw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: 130

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: greenftechn On: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:36 pm

rychw, I have sent you a private message.
greenftechn
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Coal Gun S130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska Kodiak
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Wood Gun
Stove/Furnace Make: Alternate Heating Systems
Stove/Furnace Model: E100

Re: Coalgun- Puff backs & Explosions

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:39 pm

rychw wrote:
greenftechn wrote:We are dealing with these on a case by case basis. There are solutions in each case, but given that there are multiple factors, including coal source, and the individual user's management of the boiler, there is no blanket fix. Generally, draft, correct positioning of the fire, and avoiding too rapid introduction of fresh coal to the fire are the keys. Anyone using the Coal Gun is free to contact us for support for this or other issues.


As I was opening the forum I had an explosion due to too much fresh coal being added. Please tell me what else I can do to stop the explosions. Here is a summary of my situation. I have a hopper fed AHS 130 with a belt driven fan and Fuji controller. I have a dhw coil. I burn Blaschak pea coal. I have tried Reading and two other brands and the Blaschak reduces the frequency of explosions. I have rewired the ash dump motor to run only if the fan is running. I have installed a rheostat to reduce the speed of the ash dump motor. I have a terrific draft from my 35 foot chimney. It has been inspected by professionals and certified in good condition. I have drilled and installed the vent for the tube inspection plate. At this point I have frequent puff back and regular explosions. The explosions occur only when too much new coal is allowed to enter the tube. So at this point I have no draft issues, I have done all I can to raise the position of the fire up the tube, use a high quality correct sized coal and constantly maintain (my wife says obsessively baby) the boiler. I clean the boiler thoroughly at the end of the heating season and vacuum out fly ash in my horizontal smoke pipe (a 2 foot section) twice per heating season. I maintain the operation of the boiler throughout the day and evening. At this point what else can I do to stop the explosions?


Hopefully they can find a fix for you that will help everyone else. It sure seems like you have followed every recommendation to the letter.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy