Build a diesel jeep wrangler

Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:35 pm

lsayre wrote:I wonder why everywhere else on earth diesels are so readily available (to the tune of roughly 50% of all cars being diesel), but here in the good old land of the free they are not available?

Because GM killed the market with the infamous Oldsmobile diesel engine. If there was every a poorly designed diesel engine the Olds was it.
Yanche
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:47 pm

Yanche wrote:
lsayre wrote:I wonder why everywhere else on earth diesels are so readily available (to the tune of roughly 50% of all cars being diesel), but here in the good old land of the free they are not available?

Because GM killed the market with the infamous Oldsmobile diesel engine. If there was every a poorly designed diesel engine the Olds was it.

Their were gas to diesel conversions on chevy, the dealer sold a 1980 caprice classic station waggon to my grandfather, in the garage at 50 degrees it needed the block heater on, and I remember the fuel pump being rebuilt at very low mileage, they were junk, and smoke that brought out the neighbor to see if their was a fire, garage full of soot.
AA130FIREMAN
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:49 pm

Are we so shallow that we can't see what the rest of the world is (and has been) doing, and we can only dwell upon the GM 1980's Diesel disaster?
lsayre
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: europachris On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:23 pm

lsayre wrote:Are we so shallow that we can't see what the rest of the world is (and has been) doing, and we can only dwell upon the GM 1980's Diesel disaster?


Not shallow but uneducated...since you rarely hear anything about current diesels in anything mainstream - magazines, TV, etc. - the general public still remembers the "heyday" of the diesel in the 80's with bog-slow, smelly, smoky, clattering and leaking piles of Big Three junk. Even the Rabbit was loud, smelly, and painfully slow. At least it got good mileage and the engine didn't eat itself every 40 or 50,000 miles.

Today, many people view diesels with a dim view due to all the idiot rednecks driving around their Cummins or Duramaxes chipped or otherwise tweaked to add tons of fuel and a big straight pipe, either out the back or up through the bed. These idiots and their "brodozers" revel in "rollin' coal" and essentially making people think diesels are just nasty.

Americans have been perverted by advertised power, 0-60 times, and faster = better. With the enviro-hippies throwing around all the junk-science, diesels have become Public Enemy #2 - right behind #1 - coal. So, our friendly EPA has made it almost impossible to certify a diesel engine without adding so much crap to it to control emissions that it becomes as unreliable as the junk from the 80's and the fuel economy goes down to where a gas engine is both cheaper and far simpler and gets almost the same fuel mileage.

The Europeans have long viewed vehicle emissions with less importance on NOx and more importance on unburned HC, CO, and CO2 output (and most lately, soot/particulates). With less stringent NOx requirements, it allows less EGR which causes less engine deposits and wear, and the engines produce less soot in the first place with less EGR. My Liberty smoked like a tire fire, even at light throttle, all the time. It would blow great clouds of soot when you really tromped on it after a few weeks of easy driving. After the EGR was eliminated, it almost eliminated smoke output except for WOT, and the oil, which previously would turn into a black mess that was impossible to remove from your skin after just a few miles, now stays much cleaner without all that soot.

It's unfortunate that the "real" diesels from Europe are generally unavailable in the USA, aside from the VWs. The BMW 335d is a spectacular sedan - 40mpg, clean, quiet and FAST! But BMW only sends us the rather loaded up versions which are north of $40K. They have a 4 cylinder 3 series diesel (320d or such) in Europe along with wagon versions (which I love - my Jetta is a wagon) and manual transmissions. We get none of that. Mercedes, same deal. That seriously limits the market penetration of high tech diesels.

The other side of the coin is that it is probably a good thing they don't send them here (and Ford and GM do not sell their European diesel engines here) because diesels don't tolerate poor maintenance, and the latest generations especially so. Many times they require synthetic oil (diesel rated), special oil filters, etc. The current Wal-Mart generation essentially shops on price only, so the $19.95 special down at Joe's Lube Haus will be it and whatever no-name oil he pumps will be going in your engine. On something like the VW PD TDI engine, that will guarantee you a new camshaft at 100k miles if it makes it that far.
europachris
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:48 pm

I love my 2009 Silverado Duramax diesel. I bought in part because I got a good deal but also because of a lifelong friend that's a diesel mechanic. He went to GM diesel school right after high school and owns a heavy truck junk yard. He rebuilds diesels every week and knows them inside out. At my 50th high school reunion Bill told me the Duramax was the best diesel engine available in the US market. I trust his judgment and fully expect my Silverado to be trouble free.

I will be doing my own oil changes and lube with the best products available.
Yanche
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: cabinover On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:33 pm

Don't know about the best diesel engine on the market but they sure have cornered the quietest! I drove up next to one last winter and my gasoline Volvo made as much noise as that DuraMax did. :oops:

That was until I heard the new Fords. Now those are dead quiet.
cabinover
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:37 pm

The Duramax diesel is definitely a fine piece of equipment...will it fit in Wrangler? :woot:

Our farm has a 2006 3500 with the Duramax/Allison combination, it has spent most of its life towing max GVWR loads and has needed nothing but brakes and a transmission cooler line. Drive-train maintenance is very important if you tow big loads...the rear differential cover on our truck has discolored paint from being run HOT.

I will be doing my own oil changes and lube with the best products available.


Lots of advertising dollars have been spent to make that a difficult decision. I would be interested to hear which products you use in your truck.
Rob R.
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: europachris On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:54 pm

cabinover wrote:That was until I heard the new Fords. Now those are dead quiet.


LOL, they are also dead last in any race against the new Duramax. :roll: Motortrend magazine did a test of the new Fords vs. Chevy/GMC super duty trucks and while Ford got the best interior, GM engineers spent what little money thay had during the bankruptcy reorganization and put it where it counts - under the sheet metal.

While the GM trucks have an interior and dash worthy of a decade ago, the redesigned front suspesion (with adjustable torsion bar preload), fully boxed frame, brake upgrades, etc. combined with the vastly superior Allison automatic, just absolutely smoked the Ford in almost every performance measurement. The Ford people responsible should all get the asshat award - let's face it, the real users of these trucks don't care about leather, fancy woodgrain trim, Sync, etc. These trucks are meant to work and work hard, without breaking down or wearing out prematurely and having strong suspension, brakes, and most importantly, a transmission that's bulletproof and dialed in for towing, is what is most important.

I suppose you'll be able to appreciate the fine Ford interior while you're broken down on the side of the road waiting for a tow..... :P
europachris
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:33 pm

I wouldn't buy a new diesel truck of any variety with all of the emissions garbage on them. I can just imagine the cost $$ of replacing all that emissions garbage on my way to 500,000miles. I'll keep my non cat, non egr, non variable turbo, forged rod 7.3 thank you. with a DP tuner chip and a 4" exhaust, Dana 50 leaf sprung front end, manual 4x4, and an aftermarket 4r100 I have all the power I need with REAL, LONG-TERM reliability. my 7.3 has almost 300,000 miles, my father's '99 has close to 500,000. Other than the one time he had a senior moment and put gas in his tank in illinois, and the transmission replaced with an aftermarket HD version (both of us replaced our transmissions right at 200,000 miles) we've had no problems, and much of that travel has been hauling something heavy.
Berlin
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:22 pm

Berlin, you won't get any argument from me on the durability of mechanical diesels. My dad continues to run pre-electronic control John Deere equipment for the simple reason...it runs nearly forever, and when it does need a repair, it doesn't require specialized diagnostic equipment. Aside from the Duramax farm truck, we only have one other truck with electronics...and it has probably required about 5k in electronic repairs in the last three years.

One of my customers actually buys "glider" Class 8 trucks...which is basically a new truck minus the engine and transmission. They then swap in a powerplant from an older truck, a rollover, whatever. Their latest is a 2011 Western Star with a 525hp C15 Caterpillar and an 18 speed Roadranger from an International "donor". The install looks factory, and they basically have a new truck with a non DPF/EGR diesel.

Have you seen any of the new trucks with the urea systems?
Rob R.
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: mal91152 On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:42 pm

Just did a Jeep conversion with a TDI VW motor. Excellent choice not like the old rabbit. Done three Jeeps, one mercedes 300 turbo motor, one Isuzu cab over motor and now the VW. 50 pounds lighter and with a chip can be 220 Hp and lots of torque.
So far the mileage has been in the 30's but I have been playing around and not on the highway. More then enough power and there are kits but too expensive and easy to do yourself. the Isuzu 3.9L was also easy and a company makes adapters for the NP tranny.
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:38 pm

markviii wrote:The Duramax diesel is definitely a fine piece of equipment...will it fit in Wrangler? :woot:
I will be doing my own oil changes and lube with the best products available.

Lots of advertising dollars have been spent to make that a difficult decision. I would be interested to hear which products you use in your truck.

I'll be digesting the technical info in this tech note that describes how to pick the "right" currently available oil for my Corvairs. While the Duramax engine is nothing like an air cooled Corvair engine the technical info is all there. If you happen to have older push rod engines you might want to give it a look.
Corvair_oil.pdf
(822.8 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
Select:BBcode: [nepafile=27012]Corvair_oil.pdf[/nepafile]
Yanche
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:13 pm

From what I understand, the new style common rail fuel injectors make the cummins quieter, but I do like to hear them rattle. What's a harley without drag pipes, a police bike :lol:
AA130FIREMAN
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:04 am

Yanche wrote:
markviii wrote:The Duramax diesel is definitely a fine piece of equipment...will it fit in Wrangler? :woot:
I will be doing my own oil changes and lube with the best products available.

Lots of advertising dollars have been spent to make that a difficult decision. I would be interested to hear which products you use in your truck.

I'll be digesting the technical info in this tech note that describes how to pick the "right" currently available oil for my Corvairs. While the Duramax engine is nothing like an air cooled Corvair engine the technical info is all there. If you happen to have older push rod engines you might want to give it a look.
Corvair_oil.pdf



We just run mobil 1 15-50 (summer) or mobil 1 5-40TDT (winter) in our vehicles, always add a can of stp oil additive (basically just some polymers with lots of zddp) and a can of lubro moly mos2 at every oil change. I do oil analysis every 20,000 miles on everything and I have the wear numbers that show it works - especially iron, typically 0 or close to it.

No, I havent had the pleasure of being around any of the latest emissions stupidity that the epa has forced upon diesel engines. I know quite a few people with fleets that have been dealing with the last decade's decline in engine simplicity and economy and they're not looking forward to making any more purchases.
Berlin
 
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Re: Build a diesel jeep wrangler

PostBy: BeerMonley On: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:35 pm

heres some light reading on a compay that makes a complete kit for a 4bt into a JK

http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthrea ... 4bt+diesel


heres a 6 cly diesel swap (not a jk body on a truck frame like 4 wheel and off road did.

http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthrea ... 4bt+diesel

i drive a 07 unlimited rubi and plan somekind of a motor swap once its paid off (didnt buy it new) id love to do a 4bt but its to expensive at this time it will prob end up being a LS swap since there cheaper motors and better mpg than a hemi
BeerMonley
 
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