Keystoker-removing gear motor

PostBy: europachris On: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:08 pm

byrdy11 wrote:You know, looking at your picture, I realize that I dont have any screws there at all. The pusher bar was what was jamming up on me all along and nothing was wrong with the motor. The pusher bar has a slot that fits over the cam and the whole thing slides in and the two screws hold it to the stove. There are no screws for mine in that region where I see yours. Different stove (mine is a keystoker 90) I guess. When I look in there I can see the four screws that hold the motor to the plate-I took that apart and cleaned out the coal ash that put it all back together. I found the manual for my stove and the only thing I did wrong was I didnt disconnect teh wires from the motor. It is a pretty neat design.


Mine is also a Keystoker 90, so yours should look almost exactly like mine. If you are missing those screws on the side of the pusher block, that could be the reason yours is binding up - they are to help guide the block and prevent it from getting all sideways in the slot.

The screws on mine when I got it were long gone - only some plastic residue remained from where they had melted out due to some improper draft and burning from the previous owner.....

Chris
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Hi Chris

PostBy: byrdy11 On: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:13 pm

The stove was brand new when we got it two seasons ago. Last year was the first season it was used the full time. Maybe they did some design changes from one year to the next???? My pusher bar has no holes in it on the bottom for screws-just the trough for the came. I just went down and looked at it again. It's two pieces of metal that are screwed together on each end....you can see the end of the screw protruding to the inside and holding the pieces together when I look inside it. Then it has an opening or slot that fits over the top of the cam. My thoughts now are that if it gets jammed in the chute you are supposed to 'back' out the screws to make it fit in the chute properly. What was happening was it was getting offcentered in the chute so one side was about a half inch further out than the other side. I didnt notice the screws when I pulled it out. I'll try to take a picture to show you later to see what you think.
byrdy11
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 90
Coal Size/Type: rice

PostBy: Matthaus On: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:41 am

It sounds like the screws have broken, burned or worn off leaving the shanks in the blocks. You need to remove the broken pieces and install new screws, as you surmised the screw heads are what adjusts the block from side to side. I know of no easy non tool intensive method to remove the broken pieces, except maybe melting them out with a small propane torch. That would still require a tap or steel screw of the correct size and thread pitch to clean the threads. Maybe someone has an easy way that I haven't thought of. If you have any neighbors with a torch, drills, taps and such things they could help you get the pieces out.

Also if you post a picture of the pusher assembly maybe we can figure out what caused the screws to lose their heads in the first place. This should not be happening in a new stove, the pics I posted are out of a unit over 8 years old.

One thing is for sure, you need to get them replaced, the stove will not operate properly without them (as far as I know). :(
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Older style Keystoker 90
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Old style Keystoker 90, closeup of the screws
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Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite


PostBy: ken On: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:55 am

mines 2 years old and looks the same. the pusher has gasket material between the screws though.
ken
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker - Rice Coal
Stove/Furnace Model: 75K - Bay Window - Direct Vent

PostBy: jpen1 On: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:17 pm

I lokked at Byrdy's earlier posts and pictures of the stove and I thinkit is a Koker furnace model not a 90 freestanding. I could be wrong as am the least familiar with keystoker. Even still it is a possibilitythat they are burnt or melted off as she was having draft problem last year froma bloked power vent that sent fumes into the house. The aesiest way to remove a nylon screw is ti drill it out aned retap it , preferably in a drill press. If the screws are say a 10-32 or 10-24 which are ~3/16" outside thread diameter you would need to drill it at 9/64" to allow for retapping of the holes.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:18 pm

I'm betting those are 1/4"-20 nylon bolts. They are available from hobby stores that sell supplies for the RC [radio control] flying airplanes. These Nylon bolts are used to bolt the wings to the fuselage of the flying planes.

The nylon bolt acts as a shear-bolt during rough landings and minor crashes, the bolts shear, and the wing and fuselage damage is minimal. Or at least reduced.

The bolts are quite long for the Hobby use, about 1.5-2", but quite inexpensive. You can cut them with scissors.

Byrdy11, you might be able to use a nail and drive the broke piece of nylon bolt out of the threaded hole, then thread a regular bolt through the hole to clean the threads.

If you will let us know the general area of where you are located, there may be a 'handy' coal burning forum member nearby who could help. You can PM me with that info if you want and I'll see if anyone is near you.

Greg L.

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: Matthaus On: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:41 pm

I just checked the screw size on my keystoker 90, they are #10-24 (that is a #10 screw with 24 threads per inch). My local Home Depot has the nylon screws in this size so you can probably find them locally.

Your best bet is to find someone to help you since the tools needed are not in the average persons garage. As Jpen said you will need to drill it with a 9/64" drill (carefully) and then clean the threads out with a 10-24 tap. Greg's suggestion of using a nail or punch the right size so you can always try that first.

Based on the resourcefulness you showed last year keeping your unit running, you will accomplish this little task as well. :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Thanks!

PostBy: byrdy11 On: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:21 pm

Matthaus...that is it....your picture on the right it what mine looks (should look) like. I realized when I went to the manual and went through the diagrams that I am missing two screws...the heads are gone-one on each side and at opposite ends which explains the misalignment. I have to take it back out again. I am hoping my friend Jerry at work can tap them out for me. I realized after I rubbed the fines off them that they were nylon! I am pretty clueless. If I am careful, I can get the one intact one out (the other screw head is cracked) so I can use that to purchase the right sized new ones. I really appreciate all your help and the time you took to help me figure out what is wrong with my stove!

I am home sick today (stomach bug) and my darn Brittany (dog) won't leave me alone! :shock:
byrdy11
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 90
Coal Size/Type: rice

PostBy: Matthaus On: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:28 pm

No problem, just happen to have two of those units here, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

Hope you feel better soon. The good news is that the weather is still cooperating, now if the dog would only get the message! :lol:
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

PostBy: jpen1 On: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:10 pm

Matt

Is that pusher block cast iron or aluminum. If it is aluminum don't try and punch it though with a pin punch. The threads will rip out with the screw as aluminum threads are quite fragile . Also it would be best to drill the screws out in a drill press. If a hand drill is used it must be done carfully and run the drill slowly. #10 -24 taps can be had at the big box stores or a local harware store like a Ace for less than $5. After you get your holes tapped blow the holes out with compressed air to clean out the shavings so your new screws don't bind and or break as you are trying to reinstall them. Just take your time and you will be fine.
Last edited by jpen1 on Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

PostBy: Matthaus On: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:29 pm

The pushers are aluminium, so good tip on not destroying the threads Chris. :) I have had luck heating them and then pushing them through but that is for a careful person. The other tips are great too, except running the tap in one of the more powerful cordless drills can have bad results :cry:

A little neverseize is a good touch for all fasteners when working on a stove, keeps things from getting stuck.
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

PostBy: jpen1 On: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:38 pm

The tap in the dril is probably best suited for someone who uses them frequently. Better buy or borrow a tap handle. I forget how easy it is to break off a tap of that size I am way to used to tapping stainless which makes just about anything else a cake walk :oops: . Your definitely right power tapping isn't the best idea for someone who has never run a tap before.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

PostBy: Matthaus On: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:02 pm

:oops: Don't be embarrassed, at least you didn't call me the wrong name. :lol: :lol:

Sorry Jpen!
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

It's done

PostBy: byrdy11 On: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:32 pm

My friend at work tapped them out for me, so now I just need to find the nylon screws to replace them and I am back in business!
byrdy11
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 90
Coal Size/Type: rice

PostBy: europachris On: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:40 pm

You've got a PM.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner