Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:04 am

From your experience which of the two is recommended for the AHS or the AA versions of the 130 boiler, and why?
Last edited by lsayre on Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:28 am

The only specified coal is anthracite that I ever saw in any literature. Red ash should be higher in btu output, and clinker more than white ash. I like the red ash. Depends how much you want to spend in traveling expence or delivery charges from different breakers /dealers in your area :)
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:56 am

My limited experience... Red ash coal (Superior Brand) preferred in winter because it makes more heat, but clinkers more.

White ash (Blaschak Brand) preferred in summer because it makes less heat. Less heat is desirable because it reduces the boiler water temperature overshoot, e.g., the continued heating of the water after the combustion blower has shut off. This can lead to an over temperature condition. My boiler has been at 240-260 deg F. This would normally cause the safety pressure value to open. However, after increasing the size of my expansion tank(s) it no longer happens. It's an ideal solution because it negates the need for a dump zone, in all but the extreme cases.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:45 am

How well are clinkers generally handled by the sister 130's? Does the grate chew them up, or do they have to be removed with tongs or by some other means? How frequently do you check for them? What problem or warning signs crop up when clinkers are present?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:32 pm

lsayre wrote:How well are clinkers generally handled by the sister 130's? Does the grate chew them up, or do they have to be removed with tongs or by some other means? How frequently do you check for them? What problem or warning signs crop up when clinkers are present?
Clinkers have always made it out own their own. Large clinkers on a first fire, then small ones from time to time, never created any issues for me.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:17 pm

My AHS grate motor has enough "stuff" to crush any clinker. In fact when the fire has gone out and it just kept feeding coal I had lots of rice and smaller coal in the ash bucket. :-) Just crunched it all up.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: Pa Dealer On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:54 pm

Yanche wrote:My limited experience... Red ash coal (Superior Brand) preferred in winter because it makes more heat, but clinkers more.

White ash (Blaschak Brand) preferred in summer because it makes less heat. Less heat is desirable because it reduces the boiler water temperature overshoot, e.g., the continued heating of the water after the combustion blower has shut off. This can lead to an over temperature condition. My boiler has been at 240-260 deg F. This would normally cause the safety pressure value to open. However, after increasing the size of my expansion tank(s) it no longer happens. It's an ideal solution because it negates the need for a dump zone, in all but the extreme cases.

How did you come up with red ash burning hotter than white ash coal? I find white ash coal far superior to red ash coal.



ry
Pa Dealer
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 DF
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM DF 520
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:56 pm

Really depends on what was the source of the coal...some breakers will mix the two, red and white, to try to have a consistent product...instead of better or worse at random times...it's just a sound business practice. ;)

And Blaschaks is a large lot of reclaimed coal from back in the days when if it wasn't PURE it was pushed aside...and the technology of today is able to now separate it and have Pure reclaimed out of it. When I say pure, I mean free of excessive shale, rocks and such undesirables.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:59 pm

Pa Dealer wrote:
Yanche wrote:My limited experience... Red ash coal (Superior Brand) preferred in winter because it makes more heat, but clinkers more.

White ash (Blaschak Brand) preferred in summer because it makes less heat. Less heat is desirable because it reduces the boiler water temperature overshoot, e.g., the continued heating of the water after the combustion blower has shut off. This can lead to an over temperature condition. My boiler has been at 240-260 deg F. This would normally cause the safety pressure value to open. However, after increasing the size of my expansion tank(s) it no longer happens. It's an ideal solution because it negates the need for a dump zone, in all but the extreme cases.

How did you come up with red ash burning hotter than white ash coal? I find white ash coal far superior to red ash coal.

ry

That's why I prefaced my comment with "My limited experience..." Your experience is different. The point is the burn characteristics of coal types (vein, brand, location mined, etc.) is different. Hotter burn is desirable for winter, not so hot is better for summer domestic hot water production only. As they say your mileage may vary.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: TimW On: Sat May 28, 2011 5:44 pm

Shame on me... that I don't pay more attention to this wealth of information. The nepacrossroads.com really deserves a big Kudos!

I've been burning coal for two seasons thus far... pea coal, bagged, AHS S140 boiler. You can backtrack my history and pics thus far.

I am not set up for an easy drop of coal. Bagged coal, though more expensive, seems the best solution for me. If you can offer alternative thought on this... I would love to hear from you.

Presently, I am looking at summer boiler usage. I've shut the AHS down for the pat two seasons and I have an 80 gallon electric hot water heater that supports my family including my 4 children, my mom and all the showers and laundry that go with that demand... plus, I would love to add a hot water source for the above ground pool to extend the season a bit :) but that is far down the list of priorities.

My question is does burning coal through the warm season make sense practically and financially and neighborly- as is does the smell of burning coal show up more significantly during warm season burning? Obviously draft becomes an issue, right? Has anyone wrestled through this dilemma before and what did you find out? If there are threads I've missed out on, please hook me up. Thanks!
TimW
 
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S130 Coal Stoker Boiler

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: mozz On: Sat May 28, 2011 9:09 pm

Do you notice how much your electric bill has gone up using the electric water heater? I am gonna guess and say $40/month. At $185/ton, if you used 15 lbs a day, i am coming up with $41.65/month. Your mileage will vary. We only have 2 people here full time plus occasional children and grand kids staying overnight. Our hot water usage i would say is low. I run my AA130 year-round to help prolong its life, our basement is damp, we even have water running into it right now because the water table here is so high. I would save some money using electric for hot water but just extending the boiler life means more to me. We just had a power outage for 24 hours. The first 8 hours i didn't feel like getting the generator out of the shed so we just went to sleep. The AA130 didn't go out in the first 8 hours. I fired up the generator for 1 hour before work, shut it off, went to work for the day. Came home, still no power, started the generator back up, fire was still going. My 10 position transfer switch doesn't include the electric hot water heater which i have plumbed in series with the AA130. 930pm, power was back on. If you have 4 people whom use hot water but have to still buy bagged, you might be at a break even point depending on daily coal usage. As for the chimney. i rarely ever smell any coal fumes, i think that varies on the coal brand usage.
mozz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sat May 28, 2011 9:21 pm

My 80 gallon electric uses about $60/month. The smell depends on which way the wind blows, I can smell mine when firing, like the old steam engines at a farm show 8-) . I am not running the dehumidifier in the basement so that saves the $$$. The cost savings is probably a wash unless you figure in the cost of replacing the stove pipe :o
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun May 29, 2011 7:00 am

Although I run an EFM instead of an AHS, I am still burning for hot water and have no smells or fumes to report. I burn about 20-25 lbs per day, which costs less than what it costs to do the same job with my oil boiler. Pool heating will start next week, and I don't even want to think of trying that with fuel oil.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun May 29, 2011 8:45 am

I heat my domestic hot water with an indirect hot water heater. The boiler water source can be either my AHS coal boiler or my oil boiler. What I use is a matter of circumstance. In summer when making system changes or cleaning the coal boiler I use oil. Coal is the least expensive to operate. But ... It can have problems. Here's my experience.

In summer the coal boiler has far more capability than needed. So you have endless hot water replenished faster than you can use it. But if the tank demand is satisfied right about the time the boiler water high set point is reached things will over heat. What overheats? It depends. My first summer season I didn't have an adequate check valve. So I got gravity flow to the indirect tank resulting in very hot water. Also got radiation loss from the gravity flow in pipes. Next season I added circulator pumps with spring loaded check valves. This stopped the gravity flow. Good, but ... Now the boiler pressure safety valve would open. Pain in the butt, that requires manual intervention to recover. So, next season after much analysis I decided against a dump zone and added much larger expansion tanks. With the larger volume for the expanded hot boiler water I get no safety valve opening. Good, but ... Now I get localized boiling in the boiler under certain no pumping conditions. My boiler circulator pump is atop my boiler "pumping away" style. So under certain conditions the boiler will push water past the pumps check valve, leaving the impeller dry. So ... Next time there is demand it can't pump. So ... the solution is to move the pump to the return side of the boiler. That way there is gravity fed water to both sides of the circulator all the time. That's this summers project.

So in summary summer domestic hot water heating is the cheapest and can be trouble free with the right installation. My estimate for coal consumption is less than 15 lbs/day. Perhaps half as low. Boiler aquastat is as low as it will go. 140 deg I think. Coal fire doesn't not go out even if there is no demand for 1 to 1-1/2 days. My guess it could recover ever after 2 days.

But ... I sure would be nice to have an independent source of domestic hot water, something not dependent on boiler water, coal or oil. So another summertime project is a Geyser heat pump hot water heater system. It will be installed using my indirect hot water tank, but not in the typical way. It will be on the boiler water side of the tank. I talked to the Nyle engineers and they have never had anyone install it this way. I'm on my own. Let you know the end of next summer how it went.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Is red ash or white ash coal preferred in the AHS S130?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun May 29, 2011 12:11 pm

Red ash is going to have higher ash content too. White ash is going to hover in the 10% to 11% and can get down into the 5 to 6% range with some of the coal near Hazleton. The red ash is going to be in the 5% range in most cases. If I remember correctly the number quoted for Superior was 16%.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite