Water in coal

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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: steamup On: Tue May 17, 2011 5:21 pm

Pacowy wrote:It just shouldn't have that much water, and enough people have had bad experiences with it that the supplier should do something about it.


I would then recommend that a letter be written directly to the coal Proccessor and encourage other to write letters. Complaining to the local supplier cannot guarantee that the proccessor will be notified. Emails are generally ignored. The coal proccessor may or may not not realize the situation.

If there is enough dis-satisfication expressed by a number of people, they are smart to respond.

Complaining here may, if you are lucky, get you some sympathy. :)
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed May 18, 2011 8:45 am

Bottom line is--fuel oil nor NG won't leak (for the most part) With all the water you'r talking about, I suspect there must have been a puddle under/ around the pallets it was stored on--my Uncle Sal always told me--you have to be smarter then what you're working with. Guys, coal use is not set in stone--we still have to use our brains ;) PS--I don't do the sympathy thing real well--maybe I need to get off the farm more often. toothy
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed May 18, 2011 8:54 am

Have you got some of those 'left handed ciggies' out there on the farm, Fred? Cash crop?
If it were a perfect world.......For the 'P*ss and Moan' members: Man up! :idea: 8-) :P
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed May 18, 2011 9:00 am

Damn WN, that's to supplement my SS , now the libs know about it :( what to do, what to do? toothy
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Wed May 18, 2011 9:08 am

dont worry , they are making them right handed these days......

kinda balances thier "Hands" out......

the Ace near me that i bought black shack bags from to continue to burn during "spring" initially recieved and stored thier coal inside and thus every bag i bought was very dry....

after one day of 60+ degrees they thought it was "spring" and moved the pallet outside....

naturally a month of cold weather continues and now the bags are a wee wet...

its not the coal, its the coal storage that got em wet........ still burns nice... 8-)

and still burning it as I type this.. :shock: .... pushin JUNE :roll:
Poconoeagle
 
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed May 18, 2011 9:25 am

Not looking for sympathy. The forum is good for letting people share their notes, and it seems like a lot of people have had similar experiences with this source. Mine spans from bags bought fresh from the indoor storage facility of a local dealer to bags bought from private parties (who bought them from different dealers). They all had way more water than other rice I've bought in bags, including bags from another source that I know sat out in the rain.

If it helps some coal users deal with problems they may be experiencing, or eventually gets the supplier to improve the quality of their product, I'm not sure why some members seem to think it shouldn't be discussed.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Water in coal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed May 18, 2011 9:58 am

I picked up 20 bags of Blaschak(NUT) also to get through this weird spring we're having & have not had any--WET--problem. Nobody is saying it shouldn't be discussed--my own post was that coal is not a GIVEN--or buyer be aware that this wet problem sometimes does exist--I don't depend on anyone to do what I need to do & that would be checking what I purchase, no matter what it is.
Last edited by freetown fred on Wed May 18, 2011 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
freetown fred
 
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed May 18, 2011 9:59 am

Mike is absolutely right, and the more we help others understand the issue of black juice all over us, our things is avoidable
and how to go about it. Plastic is the least water shedding of all the bagging materials. I have one guy who bags in burlap bags only. More money, but reusable and NO complaints about water at all. (He was smarter right out of the blocks). If you have a 1/2 million in the bagger and it only uses plastic bags......guess what! I can assure you I had more than a few choice words the first time I got the 'black shower', especially with 'street clothes' on. I figured out that outsmarting it was the only solution. My concern is that if everyone freaks out, the bagged price will exceed the height of a Giraffes ball bag, so that hurts also..... everyone, not just those who are having issues. Those of us who have had a few loads of bulk don't get too concerned, it is what it is. Coal is not for everyone, but most will enjoy it's benefits. :idea:
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
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Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: coal berner On: Wed May 18, 2011 10:29 pm

Pacowy wrote:Not looking for sympathy. The forum is good for letting people share their notes, and it seems like a lot of people have had similar experiences with this source. Mine spans from bags bought fresh from the indoor storage facility of a local dealer to bags bought from private parties (who bought them from different dealers). They all had way more water than other rice I've bought in bags, including bags from another source that I know sat out in the rain.

If it helps some coal users deal with problems they may be experiencing, or eventually gets the supplier to improve the quality of their product, I'm not sure why some members seem to think it shouldn't be discussed.

Mike

Take a ride to the breaker & bagging plant and see for yourself there is no water in the coal when it is being bagged
they have several million dollar computerized bagging machine and robot that can not have water pouring all over the
place you will find the bagging plant dry the coal comes from the breaker to drying sheds it sits for days drying out then it is truck to the bagging plant where the coal goes into 2 storey drying hoppers where hot air is blown in to dry any moistureout of the coal there are 4 hopper the coal is rotated from one to the other then it is conveyed to the bagging hopper the conveyors have hot air knifes blowers blowing more hot air onto & over the coal before it goes into the bagging

hopper where the Computer drops the coal into the bags that have air holes in them so they do not blow apart when they are being filled once the computer weighs the 40 lb bags then they are sealed and set down the conveyor to the robot arm that loads then onto pallets then once there are 60 bags on it the pallet is moved to the shrink wrap machine where there are two pieces of plastic folded over the top of pallet to cover the bags them the machine wraps it in shrink wrap ones it is done the pallet moves down the line to the forklift where the pallet is moved to the storage house/ warehouse everything is in side

The water issue is from when the product gets to the dealer that is when the water gets in to the bags most dealer store the pallets outside in the weather instead of in a building or trailer once the dealer opens the shrink wrap and removes the plastic cover then the water can get in .

I have took many members to the breaker and bagging plant they all can testify that there is no water in the coal when it is being bagged If you do not believe then take a ride down to them and see for your self they are more then happy to show you the process of breaking and bagging coal .

Now with this said This subject should be closed as far as it is the manufacture fault because it is not the case .
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed May 18, 2011 11:15 pm

I've bought it from a dealer who received and kept it indoors until the shrinkwrap came off - same result. People have presented half a dozen theories of where all of the water comes from (none of which seem to explain what I've seen). I don't really care where the excess water comes from, or whether they need to change something about the bags or the shrinkwrap or whatever. Too often, in my experience, their bagged rice has excessive water when it's received by the customer. Why isn't that something they should try to fix?

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Coalfire On: Thu May 19, 2011 5:44 am

Pacowy wrote:I've bought it from a dealer who received and kept it indoors until the shrinkwrap came off - same result. People have presented half a dozen theories of where all of the water comes from (none of which seem to explain what I've seen). I don't really care where the excess water comes from, or whether they need to change something about the bags or the shrinkwrap or whatever. Too often, in my experience, their bagged rice has excessive water when it's received by the customer. Why isn't that something they should try to fix?

Mike


Are you sure that during the transport to your dealer it didn't get wet? I'm not sure if they can fix it as much as it is a storage and transportation issue. I've seen this bagging machine too it is awesome. One guy sits there and watches and one guy runs the forklift. This machine hauls, if only people would work this fast :lol: . The bags all get stored in a big wharehouse, so I think the moisture is coming from storage/transport after, and the reason I say this is that bagging machine was DRY.



Eric
Coalfire
 
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: steamup On: Thu May 19, 2011 8:26 am

[Mike
Take a ride to the breaker & bagging plant and see for yourself there is no water in the coal when it is being bagged
they have several million dollar computerized bagging machine and robot that can not have water pouring all over the
place you will find the bagging plant dry the coal comes from the breaker to drying sheds it sits for days drying out then it is truck to the bagging plant where the coal goes into 2 storey drying hoppers where hot air is blown in to dry any moistureout of the coal there are 4 hopper the coal is rotated from one to the other then it is conveyed to the bagging hopper the conveyors have hot air knifes blowers blowing more hot air onto & over the coal before it goes into the bagging

hopper where the Computer drops the coal into the bags that have air holes in them so they do not blow apart when they are being filled once the computer weighs the 40 lb bags then they are sealed and set down the conveyor to the robot arm that loads then onto pallets then once there are 60 bags on it the pallet is moved to the shrink wrap machine where there are two pieces of plastic folded over the top of pallet to cover the bags them the machine wraps it in shrink wrap ones it is done the pallet moves down the line to the forklift where the pallet is moved to the storage house/ warehouse everything is in side

The water issue is from when the product gets to the dealer that is when the water gets in to the bags most dealer store the pallets outside in the weather instead of in a building or trailer once the dealer opens the shrink wrap and removes the plastic cover then the water can get in .

I have took many members to the breaker and bagging plant they all can testify that there is no water in the coal when it is being bagged If you do not believe then take a ride down to them and see for your self they are more then happy to show you the process of breaking and bagging coal .

Now with this said This subject should be closed as far as it is the manufacture fault because it is not the case .


This is good information and the very essence of this forum. Not all of us have the opportunity to look inside all aspects of the business. I could not imagine the need to dry the coal before bagging but it is done. My appologies to all for my assumptions.

This leads to further thought. IF the coal is wrapped after it is bagged and stored inside, then the only possible source of moisture could be condensation. A mass such as coal would act much like basement walls. It would cool down and when hit by warm weather would not warm up to fast, especially if indoors. The bags get small perforations in them from the sharp edges of coal during transportation and handling. This would allow moisture to invade the coal mass and condense on the cooler coal. The more cycles of this, the more moisture in the coal. The moisture will not leave the bag as fast because the coal would have to be warmer than the air and the air fairly dry. This usually does not happen if the coal is stored inside. Maybe if in a conditioned area or outside, the sun might warm up the coal and drive some moisure out.

There may not be any good answer other than not let coal in bags sit around. Storing outside leaving the shrink wrap intact may be better than inside storage. It would take a lot of testing to prove or disprove this
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Water in coal

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu May 19, 2011 8:37 am

Pacowy wrote:I've bought it from a dealer who received and kept it indoors until the shrinkwrap came off - same result. People have presented half a dozen theories of where all of the water comes from (none of which seem to explain what I've seen). I don't really care where the excess water comes from, or whether they need to change something about the bags or the shrinkwrap or whatever. Too often, in my experience, their bagged rice has excessive water when it's received by the customer. Why isn't that something they should try to fix?

Mike

Because like I said it is not wet when they bag it it is not happening on there end Stop complaining and go see for
yourself you will see for yourself once you do go back after your dealer The plastic bags has to have air holes in them so they do not blow apart when the machine loads them
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
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Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Water in coal

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu May 19, 2011 8:42 am

Coalfire wrote:
Pacowy wrote:I've bought it from a dealer who received and kept it indoors until the shrinkwrap came off - same result. People have presented half a dozen theories of where all of the water comes from (none of which seem to explain what I've seen). I don't really care where the excess water comes from, or whether they need to change something about the bags or the shrinkwrap or whatever. Too often, in my experience, their bagged rice has excessive water when it's received by the customer. Why isn't that something they should try to fix?

Mike


Are you sure that during the transport to your dealer it didn't get wet? I'm not sure if they can fix it as much as it is a storage and transportation issue. I've seen this bagging machine too it is awesome. One guy sits there and watches and one guy runs the forklift. This machine hauls, if only people would work this fast :lol: . The bags all get stored in a big wharehouse, so I think the moisture is coming from storage/transport after, and the reason I say this is that bagging machine was DRY.



Eric
Not only is the machine is dry the whole floor where the bagging plant is is dry
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Don On: Thu May 19, 2011 9:04 am

Pacowy wrote:I don't think the issue is whether there is water with the coal - the issue is the large quantity of water that regularly appears in bags of rice (don't know about other sizes) from one supplier. To me, it doesn't matter whether it results from the processing, transportation, storage, etc. It just shouldn't have that much water, and enough people have had bad experiences with it that the supplier should do something about it. It's a mess to handle, rusts out hoppers prematurely and doesn't feed well in some stokers.

Mike

I agree.
We love our junk in America that`s why its hard to find quality products. Buy junk and more junk available. Buy good coal more good coal available. Let the buyer beware. The free market loves my money not me!
Don
 
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