Water in coal

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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu May 19, 2011 9:11 am

Thanks, Don.

If there was too much water in the beer that comes out of the "BK" tap at a given bar, I'm guessing most of the people making excuses for the wet coal would think it would be good for people to be aware of it, and good for whoever is responsible for it to do something about it. I thought I had already heard all of the theories, but that condensation one seems new. The problem with all of them is that there's no accountability. I can assure you that I didn't put the water in the bags I received, and I'm guessing none of the other people who had similar experiences knowingly did so either. Unless someone is ready to pay for watered beer with a smile, I don't think they should tell people the case is closed until there's an explanation and/or a change of practice so the problem doesn't happen again for the next guy.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu May 19, 2011 9:37 am

Pacowy wrote:Thanks, Don.

If there was too much water in the beer that comes out of the "BK" tap at a given bar, I'm guessing most of the people making excuses for the wet coal would think it would be good for people to be aware of it, and good for whoever is responsible for it to do something about it. I thought I had already heard all of the theories, but that condensation one seems new. The problem with all of them is that there's no accountability. I can assure you that I didn't put the water in the bags I received, and I'm guessing none of the other people who had similar experiences knowingly did so either. Unless someone is ready to pay for watered beer with a smile, I don't think they should tell people the case is closed until there's an explanation and/or a change of practice so the problem doesn't happen again for the next guy.

Mike

Two things you can do go to the source and see for yourself how the coal is bagged or buy from another source it is a free market you can buy from anyone It is that simple .
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu May 19, 2011 10:22 am

I am convinced the coal gets wet in transportation, storage, and possibly via condensation. I have bought & burned Blaschak, Kimmel's, and Reading coal in rice, pea, and nut sizes...it was all wet when I got it. I even had 22 tons of nut coal bagged by a custom bagger, and delivered immediately afterwards. That particular load was dry in-the-bag when I received it, but after sitting outside for a few months it was damp.
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu May 19, 2011 11:22 am

I don't think anyone was closing the case--just stating that--for me--if I'm buying something, I'm gonna be sure I know what I'm buying--not putting the responsibility on someone else--that seems to be a nationwide concept many have adopted--I think coal berner covered it in his last post----KISS---SOOOO the change of practice is--know what you're buying ;)
Pacowy wrote:Thanks, Don.

If there was too much water in the beer that comes out of the "BK" tap at a given bar, I'm guessing most of the people making excuses for the wet coal would think it would be good for people to be aware of it, and good for whoever is responsible for it to do something about it. I thought I had already heard all of the theories, but that condensation one seems new. The problem with all of them is that there's no accountability. I can assure you that I didn't put the water in the bags I received, and I'm guessing none of the other people who had similar experiences knowingly did so either. Unless someone is ready to pay for watered beer with a smile, I don't think they should tell people the case is closed until there's an explanation and/or a change of practice so the problem doesn't happen again for the next guy.

Mike
freetown fred
 
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu May 19, 2011 11:43 am

I'd like to think that the dialogue on the forum helps people to better know what they're buying. With all of the effort the company apparently puts into drying and protecting the product, maybe they'll eventually take interest in figuring out why so much of it shows up wet.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu May 19, 2011 11:46 am

Shouldn't this topic be beaten to death for a few thousand more posts...hundreds of new pages to sort through?
It is what it is, not for any particular reason, and each and every one has to learn to deal the cards you are given, and dry won't be an option. Damp coal is the way it will always come, bagged or bulk, but plastic bags are more prone to condensation in storage of coal. Woven bags, less likely, but stored under cover on a pallet and things will be much better.

Bulk always arrives damp, but back in February my last load didn't freeze out in the open, and I had it in the bin 6 hrs later. Bone dry coal will make your face pretty black very quickly, so I prefer damp anyway.
Lighten up, learn to accept the gift we are given. :idea: :!:

I can assure you Blashak has spent millions to make their bagging operation as perfect as can be done. The Knife blowers and entire drying procedure before it ever comes near a bag can't be made any better at any price, so we have to understand further down the 'food chain', some acceptance is going to have to be incorporated.
I sometimes pick up coal from ripped bags, old bags, fork truck accidents, wherever, when a supply house wants to get rid of it....usually all frozen solid....outside, covered in ice, but easy to handle in that state. As unbelievable as it sounds, I have radiant heat in a well drained area of the shop, leave the bags over night, and presto: thawed coal, ready to burn for small money. Hose down the floor, done.
Think of it this way: You go to a lumber yard for a few bags of Sacrete, Lime, cement, mortar, ...anything with the tiniest tear will yield a hard spot in the bag...even with an internal plastic liner. Somehow, people need to get their minds to wrap around the concept that it is not a perfect world, and this is one of life's little idiosyncrasies.
I can assure you that if you choose not to put up with this small issue, not having any bagged coal available would be a MUCH larger issue!

Keep sticking a sharp pointer into the gorilla's cage, and sooner or later, something you won't like will happen.
Don't they have a little smilie for a 'too the point comment?
Without any offense intended, but my $.02: :stfu: :stfu:

I challenge ANYONE who complains, to take a trip to the Mahoney City Blashak Plant and request a tour. Without doing that you are NOT entitled to 'shoot blindly into the air.' Fair is fair!!

If wrong, you all know I would accept ALL responsibly for these comments and apologize to the entire forum.
You will definitely find out that will not be necessary. There had better be 'Missouri license plates' on all the non believer's cars and trucks...this is a no-brainer!!!! Wherever you live. Nuff Said!
Last edited by whistlenut on Thu May 19, 2011 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
whistlenut
 
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Coalfire On: Thu May 19, 2011 12:21 pm

Whistlenut well said. Like I said before I was to the plant I din't see water spraying on the coal and everything looked dry.


Pacowy wrote: To me, it doesn't matter whether it results from the processing, transportation, storage, etc.

Mike


How is blaschak supposed to fix a problem that is not there problem???????????????????????????????????? If blaschak starts telling it's dealers that coal must be transported in an enlcosed trailer, can only be unloaded on a sunny day when the birds are singing and the planets align, and they must store it in a indoor building, then those dealers will just go elsewhere.


While I agree it might be a problem what is your suggestion. This thread has run its course and we are spinning our wheels.



Eric
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu May 19, 2011 12:44 pm

I hate to say more, but folks are wanting to be Navy Seals, and say: But I don't want to get in the water !!! I'm gonna complain to the Admiral! Good luck on that one!
Shave your legs on your own time, and learn to adapt...very quickly, .........especially since we only have another 300 years of coal left!
Last edited by whistlenut on Thu May 19, 2011 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu May 19, 2011 1:17 pm

whistlenut wrote:...I have radiant heat in a well drained area of the shop, leave the bags over night, and presto: thawed coal, ready to burn for small money.


Same here. I try and keep about a week's worth of coal stacked in the basement at all times, the bags thaw and the water runs into the corner drain. Doesn't change my life any...and it sure beats a black cloud from dumping a bag that was completely dry. I understand not wanting to carry a dripping bag across the living room floor, but that seems easy enough to solve with a small "staging area" in a less sensitive location.

Maybe this is an undiscovered market...I can see the ads now: "Bagged coal packed with desiccant, stored in de-humidifed building for NLT 90 days...$750 per ton."
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu May 19, 2011 1:23 pm

Coalfire wrote:

While I agree it might be a problem what is your suggestion. This thread has run its course and we are spinning our wheels.



Eric


I'll overlook the irony of whistlenut adding multiple posts to complain that people should stop posting, and I'll credit him with mentioning the plastic bags. If the coal is not excessively wet when bagged, basically all of the other theories I've heard require unrealistic assumptions about moisture going into the plastic bags more easily than it comes out. My suggestion - maybe the moisture is a portion of the internal moisture of the coal, which can't escape the plastic bags as well as it can from the woven ones. If rice coal has a moisture content of, say 6% (per Jeddo website), a 40 lb bag of rice coal contains about 2.4 pints of water inside the coal. It does not take a lot of heating to get at least some of the moisture to come out of coal - there are different "beneficiation" processes that do that for higher moisture coals used in powerplants. If those bags just sit in the sun for a little while, maybe that's all it takes. The woven bags have better drainage and airflow, so the water doesn't stay in the bags so much. If that's the case, maybe more holes in the bags, or switching to woven bags, would get rid of the problem.

Now I'll stfu, and if that turns out to be the cause, maybe someone from the producer (or whistlenut himself) will buy me 2.4 pints.

Mike

P.S. My apologies if somebody else already mentioned this possibility in the reams of posts on this topic - they can have the pints.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu May 19, 2011 1:44 pm

I'm buying, Mike!!!! :alone: :stretcher: :cheers: :eek2: :beer:
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu May 19, 2011 2:53 pm

whistlenut wrote:Keep sticking a sharp pointer into the gorilla's cage, and sooner or later, something you won't like will happen.


We need some regulations to increase the cost.

Goes back to the story about the weights and measures guy. When you're doing a split load you're supposed to weigh every load, weigh in, load two ton, weigh in, load the next two ton, weigh in and load the next two ton. The easier method is to load it all at once, any coal man can tell you within a few hundred pounds exactly what is on the truck. Generally you're over a few hundred pounds. Certainly possible someone may occasionally get shorted a little coal but overall everyone is getting more than what they are paying for.

Bureau of weight and measures guy doesn't like that idea, gotta do it by the book. End result is a huge increase in the time to load increasing the cost to the consumer.
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: Coalfire On: Thu May 19, 2011 4:20 pm

Pacowy wrote:
Coalfire wrote:

While I agree it might be a problem what is your suggestion. This thread has run its course and we are spinning our wheels.



Eric


The woven bags have better drainage and airflow, so the water doesn't stay in the bags so much. If that's the case, maybe more holes in the bags, or switching to woven bags, would get rid of the problem.



If you smash your thumb with a hammer you don't call the company and ask them to redesign the hammer :bang:, no you do something differant the next time so it doesn't happen again. I don't think you could switch to burlap as how would you tie the bags unless there is a machine that does it. I think all burlap is hand sealed, where plastic bags are heat sealed. The thing I think is good about plastic is you don't have any fine dirt working through like you do with woven bags. I have handled woven bags and it looked like I rubed my hand through the coal itself.

I guess there is good and bad about everything, maybe I shouldn't of made the comment about the hammer but I couldn't resist :poke:


Eric
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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: steamup On: Thu May 19, 2011 4:24 pm

If you smash your thumb with a hammer you don't call the company and ask them to redesign the hammer


Don't give the lawyers any more ideas or you will see more labels.

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Re: Water in coal

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu May 19, 2011 8:55 pm

:clap: toothy :shh: :dancing: :pepsi:
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
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