awd

GA cracker wrote:Thanks for all the replys and tips on driving, After driving several she is leaning towards the Nissan Murano. Anyone got anything on this model?
C.

How long do you plan on keeping this vehicle ?

5 yrs.
C.

Coalfire wrote:What ever you buy get a spare set of wheels and winter tires. We try to push this at the shop, most people say they can go fine. For the most part they are right It is the stopping or turning in an emergency that is the problem. We usually see the people again as they walk up from the body shop next to us with the phrase "lets talk about winter tires again." Day late and a dollar short but atleast no one has been hurt.
Eric

I've been driving on dedicated winter tires now for almost 15 years. Luckily I didn't learn by bending anything - I just finally saw the light one day.

I would challenge any vehicle, 4x4 or not, in the snow with my '02 Jetta TDI wagon. I keep the OEM steel wheels for winter with a set of Firestone Winterfires on them. They are by no means a "high tech" snow tire compared to Blizzaks, but compared to "all-season" tires they are GOD! My commute is 20 miles of back roads across the frozen tundra with no trees to block the wind and blowing snow. It's flat and the roads are mostly straight, but poorly plowed and sparse use of salt. I can usually drive at normal (50-55 mph) speeds through several inches of packed snow, and have done so through 8" of fresh powder, too, all in complete control.

It becomes frustrating when you get stuck behind the Mexican illegal on bald tires who's never seen snow before or the soccer mom that HAS the 4x4 doing 20 with a death grip on the wheel. I just wait for a good spot and pass them like the road was dry.

I've found two key points that I abide to: 1) salt makes it worse as it turns the snow into a greasy slush that the tires can't bite into nor sink down thru to get to pavement. It's bad when the temps get into the teens. 2) Driving fast in the snow requires faith in Sir Isaac Newton. A car in motion tends to stay in motion - i.e. it keeps going straight - therefore only make small steering corrections and give those corrections time to work. Also, make a steering input and then return the wheel straight, even if you think it wasn't effective. I end up driving the car just like flying my Cessna 140 - the response is very similar.

I'm also not afraid to let the car slip and slide a little. As Walter Roerhl (famous rally driver for Audi) once said, "Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows" Many drivers panic at the first little slip, freak out, over-correct, and end up in the ditch.

However, I am also absolutely impressed with our '10 Subaru Outback! Even on the stock tires, it is amazing in the snow. I can only imagine what it would be like with proper winter tires on it. With the extra ground clearance, AWD and traction control, it would be unstoppable.

GA cracker wrote:5 yrs.
C.

Murano would be fine for five years cause it would be under warrenty for that period. If you are only going to keep your vehicles five years you might want to look at a hyundai or Kia. or any of the domestics. They would be under warrenty so no worries and you would be able to save some money.

If there is a chance you are keeping them past there warrenty point I would stick with your original toyota or subaru choice. Also remember when it comes time to resale those two will hold a higher resale value.


Eric

When I look for a new or used car I always look at the expected monthly maintenance costs. My question is - is this thing going to nickel and dime me to death before I even get it paid off? The last time I got a new to me car the research showed a Toyota had the least maintenance cost, Honda was next and Subaru was third. I brought my used Toyotas 6 years ago (now 100,000 and 130,000) - and I only see my mechanic once a year for the safety inspection. They are easy for me to change the oil and check the fluids. The question of snow and ice only comes up once or twice a year and then I just stay home. Good luck, Lisa

europachris wrote:I would challenge any vehicle, 4x4 or not, in the snow with my '02 Jetta TDI wagon. .

This is a challenge you will lose. We were out in about 2 feet of unbroken snow on a mountain logging road once, you wouldn't be able to follow in the tracks. Even the last 4X4 (4 or 5 trucks altogether) was having trouble because it was mid sized and wasn't lifted.

That's an extreme comparison but when conditions have really deteriorated there really is no replacement for 4WD. Most people will never be in these conditions or shouldn't be hence the reason they have no need for 4WD for average driving when you live in town.

This is true. Most of the people in MA only take their 4x4's off road by backing over the neighbors flower beds.

SMITTY wrote:This is true. Most of the people in MA only take their 4x4's off road by backing over the neighbors flower beds.

I would not want to be without 4x4 in my truck, going to auctions in spring when they park you in the grass fields (I needed a tractor to pull me out during a flooding rain / among others with 4x4) parking my boat is tough in wet grass,hunting season,even when I put a load of coal in my bin, and I would not consider myself an offroader, just I can't stay on the blacktop all the time.

Richard S. wrote:This is a challenge you will lose. We were out in about 2 feet of unbroken snow on a mountain logging road once, you wouldn't be able to follow in the tracks. Even the last 4X4 (4 or 5 trucks altogether) was having trouble because it was mid sized and wasn't lifted.

That's an extreme comparison but when conditions have really deteriorated there really is no replacement for 4WD. Most people will never be in these conditions or shouldn't be hence the reason they have no need for 4WD for average driving when you live in town.

Very true, Richard. I guess I should have added a qualifier to my statement. I'll challenge anyone provided the snow is less than 8-10" deep. Any higher than that and I'll be plowing it. Also, TRUE 4x4 drivers know how to handle their vehicles in all conditions.

Also, remember, when you get stuck in a full size 4X4--you're STUCK--but, that's why God made tractors

I'd say if you have use a truck get a full size 1/2 ton, mount some good SNOW tires, not all seasons, and you'll be just fine. I have a 2006 Dodge Ram 1500 4X4 with 135,000 hard miles on it. They only repairs other than the brakes so far was a new clutch at 125,000 and that was mostly because of using the truck to the point of abuse constantly. At any rate with good snow tires it'll go in just about any condition if you take your time.

Jeep Wrangler.

I had a '97 for over ten years and nearly 200k miles. I rarely put it in 4WD because it was a tank even without it. During my salad years, I put on four $28.00 tires from Pep Boys. Ran them nearly bald through three or four winters. Drove at least 60 miles per day to work and back. I stopped more than once to pull an AWD monstrosity out of a ditch.

Then again, I don't think that they are anything like the used to be. Way overpriced for what they are - which is mostly a name.

europachris wrote:I would challenge any vehicle, 4x4 or not, in the snow with my '02 Jetta TDI wagon. .

Come December I will have my F350 ready for the challenge with chains on all four wheels and 2 tons of coal on the back...

Good snow tires sure make a difference, no doubt about that. I have driven Crown Victoria's for years, and most people think a RWD car with a V8 up front is worthless in the snow. With some "diggers" on the back and some weight in the truck they have no trouble at all.

Richard S. wrote:This is a challenge you will lose. We were out in about 2 feet of unbroken snow on a mountain logging road once, you wouldn't be able to follow in the tracks. Even the last 4X4 (4 or 5 trucks altogether) was having trouble because it was mid sized and wasn't lifted.

That's an extreme comparison but when conditions have really deteriorated there really is no replacement for 4WD. Most people will never be in these conditions or shouldn't be hence the reason they have no need for 4WD for average driving when you live in town.

This past winter was sure "extreme" for us. We had 5-6 occasions where the roads had about a foot of snow and the driveway was drifted full. At that point clearance is critical.

I had a 1996 Chevy Caprice that gave reasonable performance in the snow with good tires on the back. Back in the day I had a Dodge Diplomat and I had studded snow tires on the back and that did well, actually better than alot of FWD cars with all season tires. I actualy wonder what people did 25 years ago, 4wd wasnt anywhere near as common and RWD cars were still pretty much the norm

Being one of the old timers I grew up with RWD & got along just fine, used to buy recaps from a local maker( back then there were actually places that recapped tires) anyway this guy would mix saw dust in with the rubber. Wasn`t good for milage but those tires would bite like nothing else & they were cheap. Hey, life went on way back when.