The system is broken.....and I'm angry.......

We have come a long way baby. Here is what it took to have your own home in 1962. The add is from the Saturday Evening Post.

Of course the government was not helping you then.

The usual wage for a plumber, cop, carpenter, mechanic, was about $100 a week. Figuring in a lot the whole thing would cost about $100 a month, maybe less. 25% of income and the wife could stay home with the kids.

And then we got "The Great Society".

And today's mortgages are 5 to 15 years longer!

I'm On Fire,

I could say that I am sorry to hear of your troubles. However, I suspect that I'll appear even more cold and callous than the others have to you. So, why say it when you probably will not believe it. I believe that they were sincere when they said it, but I also feel that if others here had been a little more blunt, the thread would not be so long.

You really need to be more convincing when you say that you accept blame for the mess that you are in. You really do not seem to be shouldering very much of it. You signed on the line. Being ignorant of what you signed is no excuse. Read, think, then maybe sign. The whole housing bubble was a scam, but you were part of the scam, as you surely knew that it was irrresponsible to borrow what you did. And, besides the fact that you borrowed too much, ARM mortgages are another risk that you did not have to take. You chose to add that risk. You also chose to live in a fantasy in which there was no risk of your income falling, at least temporarily. Unless she has a legally binding contract in hand, your Wife's employer really doesn't owe her a thing. Employers sometimes promise what they may actually have no intention of "providing". Live is tough. You also have a problem with the unemployment insurance rules that apply to everyone.

I'm a little hot too. My Wife and I have lived within our means all of our lives. Sans a $5K gift that an Aunt left me, we have never been given a thing. We lived small, borrowed half of what we could have for a home, via a FIXED interest loan, and paid it off in 12 years. I get tired of all of the commercials aimed at offering help to folks that live beyond their means. Income tax, credit card debt, mortgage help, etc. If you could get the bail-out that you seem to think you are entitled to, who would pay for it? Me, that's who. You made the bed, now you have to lie in it. Remember the lumps.

Where's my freakin' bail-out?

Dave Brode

Here's my 2 cents. I don't think IOF is looking for the gov to give him money. He's looking for help to deal with the damm bank! The bank's thing is if you don't send in a full payment it dosen't count. The payment goes to the black hole called "escrow" but they don't tell you that for maybe 60-90 days even if you have been sending in money every month. If it's not a full payment it goes to the black hole. Then the bank starts with "you are in default letters" by the time you can find out why they have already started to forclose on you house. When you call the person that you get can't tell you anything. BOA and WF are the worst. Well that's my 2 cents.

Perhaps I'm wrong about what he wants, and from Whom he wants whatever that is. Obviously, he'll have a tough time borrowing enough to re-fi, when he didn't qualify [shouldn't have] at their old income level.

He'll need to somehow get through this, and *hopefully* learn from it. He'd probably rather walk through fire than take my advice, but I bet he'll be better off if he can figure a way to get the chip off of his shoulder too. When I get bitter about something, I try to think of someone worse off.

Like Crazy said. All I've wanted to do since my wife and I have fallen in this hole we created ourselves; apparently, is to restructure my mortgage. I never wanted out of it. Like I said, some of you read what you want.

Thing is, the banks have a legal obligation to restructure mortgages that are underwater. This is not something I made up. The US Government said they have to. My wife paid $170k for this house. Its now worth $103k. Mortgage is now upside down. We haven't been, "living beyond our means" as some of you ASSume. If we were. If we had been my wife would have a brand new SUV and I'd bee in a full size truck with a quad cab. But we're not.

We've been paying $2k a month on a mortgage for $170k in a house worth $103k. Doesn't make financial sense to me. Maybe some of you would like it in the ass but not me.

At any rate. I went and saw a lawyer today. Turns out, my wife and I have a case against the honest bank. Who knew?

Oh, and according to the lawyer, there isn't one party, person or institution responsible for the mess. The home owner can take blame, the bank can take blame, the loan officer can take blame. But, ultimately the bank issued a bad loan regardless of who signed the paperwork. They have a moral and legal obligation to support the loan they issued. They have not been and in the end, the home owner is held left holding the bag. The lawyer and I had a nice long conversation about the economy and the housing market. He said he handles 12-15 of these same cases a month. Guess that 1.8 million people in my position really does reflect an issue going way beyond the, "you made the bed, now sleep in it stigma".

I retained the lawyer. Paid him in full too. My loan will be restructured through the US legal system. I only wanted that to be done anyway but couldn't get the bank to do it so I went elsewhere.

To those that have supported me, thanks. To the rest of you.......well honestly I don't have anything to say to you other than, you can say what you want. I don't care.

Looks like you have gotten some good news for a change, that's wonderful.

You have been the victim of another crackpot liberal scheme that in the guise of helping people, instead destroys them. Lets hope they don't pull down the whole country.

Maybe now you can get back to the important things like coal stoves.

I'm On Fire",

> Like Crazy said. All I've wanted to do since my wife and I have fallen in this hole we created ourselves; apparently, is to restructure my mortgage. I never wanted out of it. Like I said, some of you read what you want.

I did read all of what you wrote. The tone of much of it was much different than what you wrote above.

> Thing is, the banks have a legal obligation to restructure mortgages that are underwater. This is not something I made up. The US Government said they have to.

That may be true, but you agreed to claiming far more income than you actually made. Now, incomes are verified. So, for the most part, you no longer qualify for that amount of credit. The lender was a fraud, but you went along.

> We haven't been, "living beyond our means" as some of you ASSume. If we were. If we had been my wife would have a brand new SUV and I'd bee in a full size truck with a quad cab. But we're not.

Borrowing far more than you should, IS living beyond your means.

> We've been paying $2k a month on a mortgage for $170k in a house worth $103k. Doesn't make financial sense to me. Maybe some of you would like it in the ass but not me.

True, but say you would owe $85K on a house that was now worth 51.5K. It would still taste bad, but it would not be as hard to swallow.

> But, ultimately the bank issued a bad loan regardless of who signed the paperwork. They have a moral and legal obligation to support the loan they issued.

How so? Here's the meaning of "loan": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan

You got in over your head, and now want a re-fi. What if you get under water again? How many times should they "support the loan that they issued"?

> They have not been and in the end, the home owner is held left holding the bag. The lawyer and I had a nice long conversation about the economy and the housing market. He said he handles 12-15 of these same cases a month. Guess that 1.8 million people in my position really does reflect an issue going way beyond the, "you made the bed, now sleep in it stigma".

Yes, many of those 1.8 million people made poor choices and borrowed too much. Lumpy beds. The lenders knew that many folks would default. They didn't care at the time. Now, since it all crashed, the borrowers can't flip the house, and get out of a mortgage that they knew they could never ever afford in the first place. The house that they could not afford, but was a sure money maker turned into a money looser. Now, they DEMAND that their government does something for them.

Finally, believe it or not, I'm glad that you found what you feel is a good solution. Honestly, I would not think bad of you for going chapter 13. If Donald Trump can do it, you should also be able to. I would still look hard at that option, esp if you come to realize that you simply bit off more than you can chew, and there's a chance that you'll loose it in the end anyway.

That said, I still stand by everything I've mentioned, but I do wish you luck in the future.

Regards,

Dave

I`m also glad you got some good legal advice, as some here say use it as a learning experience even if an expensive one & move on. The bad part is it's because of the banks refusing to work with individuals in the first place that makes getting a lawyer a necessity. They knew they were part of the cause & were given money to refinance the ones that could be helped but as big business in this country always seems to do if they can figure out a way to make a few more bucks they will. No worry about who is hurt along the line or what the right thing to do is, & these are the big boys that we shouldn't make pay their share or collect tax from, job creators my a$$.

I'm On Fire wrote:
Thing is, the banks have a legal obligation to restructure mortgages that are underwater. This is not something I made up. The US Government said they have to. My wife paid $170k for this house. Its now worth $103k. Mortgage is now upside down. We haven't been, "living beyond our means" as some of you ASSume. If we were. If we had been my wife would have a brand new SUV and I'd bee in a full size truck with a quad cab. But we're not..

Ahh...the Government said they have to...Is this the same government that said they had to loan money to folks who are clearly living beyond their means and lying on loan applications? I just want to make sure I know who is screwing the rest of us over - again. You say your not living beyond your means but yet from your previous posts you apparently have 3 vehicals with two drivers and all the cost that entails. You cut back on the hours your household works with no plans in place to replace that income. That my friend is living beyond your means just as telling the bank you make $20,000 more a year then you actually do so you can get in a house is.

As I said before, there's not much else to say - you have your bail out, I hope it works out for you but more importantly I hope it works out for the rest of us who said NO when presented with the same loan opportunity. You know, that's who is ulitmately going to bail you out of the mess you got yourself into. If posting that fact here makes me and the others who agree $$ss, so be it but you may want to be a little more careful about calling the hands that feed you names. You may be looking for another bail out down the road. Lisa

I'm On Fire wrote:My loan will be restructured through the US legal system.

I hope it all works out. Please follow up later and let us know how it comes out.

It doesn't sound like a BailOut to me, it sounds like a restructuring, there is an extremely big difference IMO. There were mistakes made & there were outright lies, fast talking salesmen have always been around it's when they hold a license of some kind (like for instance a realtor) that it becomes a criminal act to my knowledge.

In the end it all comes down to a policy issue based on the following premise...

Home owners make better citizens, residents, neighbors, etc.

Therefore the government should encourage home ownership. Where you set the bar for the government encouragement part is the problem.

I'd have to disagree with that.

Governments job is clearly defined in the Constitution and promoting home ownership is no where to be found.

I think people naturally would want a "place of their own" rather than 60 to a room. Government doesn't need to encourage that.

What government needs to do is provide for national defense to create a safe environment. And keep taxes generally low so that people have enough money to afford things like houses.

When they attempt more than that is when the trouble begins.

Here ya go...

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/lab/2496712717.html


http://newjersey.craigslist.org/lab/2498456434.html


http://newjersey.craigslist.org/lab/2472472509.html


http://newjersey.craigslist.org/lab/2451042147.html