Phllies Finest Hard at Work

Phllies Finest Hard at Work

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:20 pm

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Re: Phllies Finest Hard at Work

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:44 pm

WOW .....

See, this is what happens when you let liberals pass 2,000,000,000,000 separate laws for every town, city, county, & state. Even the police don't have a clue what the hell the laws are. Half of them don't know in this state. What a friggin' mess!!

How about this? WE FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION!! How's that? "THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP & BEAR ARM SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" Why is this so difficult for elected officials to understand??? If the guy isn't committing a crime, this shouldn't even be an issue from L.A. to NYC .... but then you have jackasses like Bloomberg in NYC blatantly trampling on the constitution.

This is one of the first & foremost indicators that government has grown FAR, FAR to big. :mad:
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Re: Phllies Finest Hard at Work

PostBy: pvolcko On: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:55 pm

yeah. The cop was over top, as usual in these things, in trying to "take control" of the situation. When more cops showed up it sounded like things got a whole lot worse very quickly for the guy.

But, I have to say this guy did sound like he was not cooperative. It took several commands by the cop (with a gun drawn down on "the perp", remember) and much back and forth from the OC guy before he'd comply with relatively basic and understandable requests/commands.

Cop says stop, you stop. Cop says hands up, hand up. Cop says on your knees, on your knees.

You don't get in a philosophical discussion on the proper use of force with the cop in-situ. You don't take on your own attitude simply because you know you are within your rights. Your rights are being violated, yes, you will get your opportunity to make it right later. Keep your thoughts to yourself. follow instructions as best as you can, and answer questions calmly and directly.

If/when the opportunity arises inform the cop of your understanding of the law in order to explain what you are doing, but you do not make the cop ask multiple times to do very basic things. As the cop kept saying, he doesn't know the OC guy.

That said, once they secured him, it shouldn't have taken tons of cops to figure out the guy was within his rights and to return his stuff. And, please cops, a simple apology would go so far in stopping people from trying to sue you and the department when this stuff happens. That's advice for your benefit and for the benefit of the citizens that end up having to foot the bill for the ego trips of the bad and borderline bad cops.

This compared to the Ohio CCW car stop... I'd say the guy in Ohio has a real case to be made for over the top bad cop behavior. In this case, the cop should have known the law better, but even if he did know it, it is within his right to stop a guy OCing to make sure he's of sound mind and not up to no good. When a gun is involved that means the cop will likely take a very proactive approach to securing the firearm, performing a permit check if needed, and get some short discussion time in with the guy carrying. This cop was, in my opinion, too forceful in his approach and obviously ignorant of the law he was attempting to enforce. He needs retraining, assuming it is not dept policy to perform the approach in this fashion as a matter of course, and a refresher course on concealed and open carry law in PA and Philly. But the guy carrying came back with attitude that only made a bad situation worse and was no small part responsible for how things went down.

He got his gun back, no permit revocation. If it had been me, I would have stopped there. Maybe post the audio as a cautionary tale, and having some humility, I'd present it as a case of what not to do when confronted with an aggressive cop interaction. I'd have left it at that.

This guy got counsel. Getting media attention. Presenting himself as some grossly wronged party in this deal... Wrong way to go I think, more likely than not to get himself more scrutiny and maybe even get his permit yanked if the cops want to press the matter. It is Philly. Have to figure OC isn't popular there, even among the possible jury pool. He'd likely loose in the primary case and maybe win in appeal, but that's 3+ years of your life flushed all because you pushed things when you really shouldn't have. If he isn't careful he may also provoke a new round of Philly and/or PA state level legislation against OC (whether you have a CCW permit or not).

Re: Phllies Finest Hard at Work

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:58 am

Depending on the area of Philli & the time of day/night, or any of a # of other big cities for that matter he is lucky it was a cop that approached him. As for holding a gun on the guy what is he supposed to do ,wait to see if the OC guy draws first? There are a lot of mistakes on both sides but if you OC I think you have to expect it.
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