Zone Valves : Best on the supply or the return manifold?

Zone Valves : Best on the supply or the return manifold?

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:09 pm

Is it best to place zone valves on the supply manifold or the return manifold of a boiler, or does it matter little as to which side gets the zone valves? If it does matter, is there a reason as to why it matters?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Zone Valves : Best on the supply or the return manifold?

PostBy: jim d On: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:14 pm

return
jim d
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska//coaljck
Stove/Furnace Model: liberty// cj3

Re: Zone Valves : Best on the supply or the return manifold?

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:19 pm

Jim, would this preference be because the zone valves would be exposed to water temperatures that are around 20 degrees or so lower on the return side?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

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Re: Zone Valves : Best on the supply or the return manifold?

PostBy: jim d On: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:33 pm

yes especially if you are using m/h w/ a rubber ball ,i've seen them swell &stick w/ extreemly hi temps, and on an open system forget about it.
jim d
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska//coaljck
Stove/Furnace Model: liberty// cj3

Re: Zone Valves : Best on the supply or the return manifold?

PostBy: homecomfort On: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:48 pm

most zone valves are designed for up to 225f. much hotter than should be used. if zone valves are sticking, it is usually due to contaminates or oxygen in boiler water. . I use on returns because it is easier to pipe.
homecomfort
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco-Belge,+ Penn Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: Normandie, + Chubby

Re: Zone Valves : Best on the supply or the return manifold?

PostBy: Don On: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:16 am

The supply side

POINT OF NO PRESSURE CHANGE
Why can’t the circulator change the system’s pressure
at the point where the expansion tank connects to the
system? This is a question asked often, both in the
field and at our hydronic seminars. The answer is
based on Boyle’s Law of Perfect Gases, which the science
community has referenced for hundreds of years.
Boyle’s Law says that if you have a gas (air) trapped
in a tank (expansion tank), its volume will shrink if
you add pressure to it. Likewise, its volume will expand
if the pressure is lowered. In other words, if you
squeeze a gas, its pressure will rise and conversely,
let the gas expand and its pressure will drop. How does
all of this relate to hydronic systems?
To change the pressure in the expansion tank (diaphragm
or steel), you have to squeeze the air that is
in there. When the boiler heats the water in the system,
the water expands, compressing the air in the
expansion tank. This causes an increase in the system’s
pressure, which you can see on the gauge of the
boiler. When you open the fill valve to add more water
to the system, because the piping is already filled
with water, the additional water enters into the expansion
tank, compressing the air, causing a rise in
system pressure which is indicated on the boiler’s
gauge.
When a circulator turns on, does it heat the water?
Does it add more water to the system? Or does it just
circulate the water? Can you see the difference? If
there is no change in volume or temperature of the
water, there can’t be a change in its pressure.
If the circulator is pumping away from the expansion
tank, can it take water out of the tank? If you
think yes, where would you put it? The piping is already
filled and you can’t compress water. If the circulator
is pumping towards the expansion tank, can
it put water into the tank? Air is compressible, so water
can enter the tank.
But where would the water come from? If you think
it can come from the piping circuit, that means there
would be a void in the piping circuit. And Mother Nature
hates a vacuum (void)! No, when a circulator
comes on, it can neither add nor remove water from
the expansion tank. And if it can’t change the volume
of the water in the tank, it can’t change the volume of
the air (gas) in the tank. This means it can’t change
the pressure in the tank or the piping connecting the
tank to the system.
Every time a circulator turns on, it “looks” for this
point. Depending upon whether it’s pumping away or
towards the expansion tank, it either increases its discharge
pressure or drops its suction pressure. And this
is why since the 1960’s, when Gil Carlson wrote his
famous paper on the “Point of No Pressure Change”,
circulators should be located on the supply “pumping
away” from the expansion tank.
Don
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker k-2
Stove/Furnace Model: utica starfire

Re: Zone Valves : Best on the supply or the return manifold?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:16 pm

For a small residential system, it will operate fine with the zone valves in either location. My old B&G "Zoning Made Easy" pamphlet shows the zone valves on the supply side, along with the air separator and circulator:

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Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

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