Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:11 am

http://goal.org/newspages/decadeofdisaster.html

The left wing state government refuses to acknowledge facts. Chapter 180 of 1998 was a complete & utter failure. Here's a snip from G.O.A.L.'s (Gun Owners Action League)investigation:

According to the State’s reporting systems in the four years prior to the passage of Chapter 180, during that time there were 1,500,000 licensed gun owners, the following results were reported:

The WRISS Report released by the MDPH in March of 2007 reflected a 57% DECREASE in firearm related assaults in the four years prior to the 1998 laws.

ISP reports from 1994 to 1997 reflected a 50% DECREASE in homicide related firearm deaths prior to the 1998 laws taking affect. Unfortunately for the citizens of the Commonwealth, that trend ended abruptly upon the passage of Chapter 180. In the decade to follow, the number of lawfully licensed gun owners declined by over 80%, however the instances of gun related assaults and homicides have increased drastically. (The following numbers are taken from the most up to date reporting category in each reporting system. Certain categories were not initiated until later, those are reflected in the bullet points below.)

The WRISS Report released by the Massachusetts Department of Public Health in March of 2007 shows a 78% INCREASE in firearm related assaults since 1998.
ISP reports from 1998 to 2005 show a 70% INCREASE in homicide related firearm deaths since 1998.
ISP reports from 1998 to 2005 show a 236% INCREASE in assault related firearm hospital discharges since 1998.
ISP reports from 1999 to 2005 show a 232% INCREASE in assault related emergency room visits since 1999.
ISP reports from 2001 to 2005 (the most recent report available) show a 670% INCREASE in assault outpatient observations since 2001.

Even with this overwhelming evidence, there are some that choose to ignore the facts and blame our neighboring states and their laws that support a strong second amendment view.
SMITTY
 
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:38 am

Again just MO but from what I have read here mostly from you Smitty & talking to my B in L in Conn. you have more than a bad gun law which I agree you do have. Also you have way too generous of a welfare system that draws in some let us say less desirable people that have nothing to do with there time.
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:26 am

Very true Sam. One trip through any city across the state is all the evidence you need of that fact.

MA desperately needs a change in it's government. With Kennedy gone there might even be a chance in hell of that happening .... but I'm not going to hold my breath ...
SMITTY
 
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: Dann757 On: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:05 pm

HAHAHA don't forget Hell Jersey Smitty. No 2nd ammendment rights here for me. I have a pillow on my recliner, maybe I can use that if I'm invaded in here, oh wait a minute, I have a duty to retreat better just jump out my own window.
You need a permit for a bb gun in NJ, caint have a wrist rocket slingshot either.

Remember, my truck was burglarized a couple months ago, right in front of the place. When I finally figured out my truck was burglarized because I couldn't find my toolboxes, and found out the cops had my stolen toolboxes, I went down to pick them up and the detective said, " How come it took you so long to miss your toolboxes?" I said "Because I'm an absent minded idiot." Glad I didn't say, " How come you didn't protect my property in the first place?"
hahahahahahaha
Dann757
 

Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:32 pm

I remember many years ago I left my sisters house in Storrs, CN. & was driving into Mass. to tour the Springfield Armory. Mass had this big billboard near their state line saying no guns permitted, I found a place to pull over & unloaded & hid my gun & ammo in different areas of the car. That was before I even realised different states didn't have to recognize another states laws.
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: Pacowy On: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:49 pm

The statistics in the opening post sounded persuasive until I looked at the context from which they were drawn and what the WRISS data seem to show. Page 15 of
http://www.mass.gov/Eeohhs2/docs/dph/injury_surveillance/wriss_residents_94_07.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
describes how:

"(d)uring the late 1980’s and early 1990’s violence, especially firearm-related violence in the U.S. and in Massachusetts began increasing at alarming rates. The use of “crack” cocaine and the struggle for control of distribution markets was considered to be one of the major triggers for this increase.(footnote omitted) Historically, Massachusetts has had lower homicide rates than the nation including those resulting from firearms. Even at the height of the epidemic, Massachusetts compared favorably to the U.S. as a whole (Figure 2). The age-adjusted firearm-related homicide rate in Massachusetts in 1991 was 2.2 per 100,000 compared to the U.S. age adjusted homicide rate of 6.6 per 100,000.(footnote omitted) Nonetheless, the homicide rate in Massachusetts in 1991 was 26.5% higher than it had been five years prior in 1986 (4.3 and 3.4 per 100,000 respectively), and the firearm homicide rate was 57.1% higher (2.2 and 1.7 per 100,000 respectively).(footnote omitted)...In response to the escalating violence, cities and towns across the state began setting up coalitions and task forces and implementing specific interventions in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. Sentencing laws were re-written with stricter mandatory sentences for certain crimes, and “community policing” began to take hold as a useful tool in the law enforcement community. In 1998, the Office of the Attorney General provided new regulations related to the sale, storage, and safety of handguns (940 CMR 16.00). Local efforts, such as midnight basketball and other athletics programs, after school programs at Boys and Girls Clubs and YMCAs, gang mediation, street worker outreach, neighborhood walks and vigils, gun buyback programs, and many other programs were implemented."

The data in Figure 2 on this page appear to undermine GOAL's argument. They show that GOAL chose 1994-1997 as a frame of reference without (a) acknowledging that 1994 was a peak (or near-peak) of state and national firearm-related homicide rates, or (b) taking into account the many initiatives undertaken during that time to reduce gun violence. The most recent data presented (2005) show a firearm-related homicide rate for MA identical to the rate from 1981 (1.7 per 100,000), which is well under half the national rate of 4.2 per 100,000. The fact that it's slightly higher than it was in 1997 - i.e., when large numbers of gang members had been incarcerated under the new stricter mandatory sentences - to me doesn't say much of anything about the 1998 regs.

There are many aspects of MA government I'm not crazy about, and I was ready to be persuaded when I saw all of the numbers in the opening post. From looking at the numbers myself, I don't see how they support the argument GOAL has tried to advance. I'm not saying the numbers prove the 1998 regs were good, but they make it seem like GOAL is claiming support that isn't really there.

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: Yanche On: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:42 pm

The following was sent to me by a former co-worker, a woman with a no nonsense attitude toward life. Who knows if it's true and a bit off topic but it will bring a smile to your face.

Posted to Craig's List Personals: To the Guy Who Tried to Mug Me in Downtown Savannah night before last. Date: 2009-03-23, 3:43AM EST I was the guy with the black Burberry jacket that you demanded I hand over, shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my girlfriend. You also asked for my girlfriend's purse and earrings. I hope you somehow come across this message. I'd like to apologize. I didn't expect you to crap in your pants when I drew my pistol after you took my jacket. Truth is, I was wearing the jacket for a reason that evening, and it wasn't that cold outside. You see, my girlfriend had just bought me that Kimber Model 1911 .45 ACP pistol for Christmas, and we had just picked up a shoulder holster for it that evening. Beautiful pistol, eh? It's a very intimidating weapon when pointed at your head, isn't it? I know it probably wasn't a great deal of fun walking back to wherever you'd come from with that brown sludge flopping about in your pants. I'm sure it was even worse since you also ended up leaving your shoes, cell phone, and wallet with me. I couldn't have you calling up any of your buddies to come help you try to mug us again. I took the liberty of calling your mother, or "Momma" as you had her listed in your cell, and explaining to her your situation. I also bought myself and four other people in the gas station this morning a tank full of gas on your credit card. The guy with the big motor home took 150 gallons and was extremely grateful! I gave your shoes to one of the homeless guys over by Vinnie Van Go Go's, along with all of the cash in your wallet. I threw the wallet in a fancy pink "pimp mobile" parked at the curb after I broke the windshield and side window out and keyed the drivers side. I called a bunch of phone sex numbers from your cell phone. They'll be on your bill in case you'd like to know which ones. Ma Bell just shut down the line, and I've only had the phone for a little over a day now, so I don't know what's going on with that. I hope they haven't permanently cut off your service. I could only get in two threatening phone calls to the DA's office and one to the FBI with it. The FBI guy was really pissed and we had a long chat (I guess while he traced the number). I'd also like to apologize for not killing you and instead making you walk back home humiliated. I'm hoping that you'll reconsider your choice of path in life. Next time you might not be so lucky. - Alex P.S. Remember this motto…..an armed society is a polite society!
Yanche
 
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: grumpy On: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:01 pm

Google this... 2rant-guns.mp3
grumpy
 

Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:08 pm

Yeah Dan, NJ is a lost cause .. along with NY, IL, MD, & CA as far as the second amendment goes. I still can't wrap my head around how they just blatantly ignore our founders. Sickening! :mad: And the whole mish-mash of different laws from state to state is absurd, & unconstitutional as well. What a friggin' joke!

All I can say Pacowy is that regardless of what spin is put on which statistic, if gun laws worked, MA would be a Utopia. That, it is FAR from. There are still gun crimes in MA ... so the laws DON'T WORK. Period. All they have done is caused an 80% reduction in law abiding gun ownership ( or turned the law-abiding into criminals ...), & make me have to second guess my decision to blast someone that might do harm to myself or my wife. I'll be God damned if I'm going to retreat in my own house, as this state expects you to do! That line of thinking is plain left-wing ridiculous, & senseless. We need to start suing anti-gun politicians for enacting laws that got people killed because they were unable to defend themselves.

Yanche wrote:The following was sent to me by a former co-worker, a woman with a no nonsense attitude toward life. Who knows if it's true and a bit off topic but it will bring a smile to your face.

That's a great one Yanche! I found that one on Craigslist a few years back & emailed it to everyone I know. Still makes me laugh my ass off! :lol:
SMITTY
 
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:24 pm

Smitty, maybe this will "make your day". Whatever the law used to be in MA, you can use deadly force and are not under an obligation to retreat in your own home. Under Chapter 278, Section 8A:

"In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

See https://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/Gene ... /Section8a .

I won't say it's utopia, but we do have the combination of a Castle Doctrine and a really low firearm-related death rate. How about the carpetbaggers who are inclined to dump on MA report their corresponding info before they get too carried away.

Smitty lives here, so he can criticize anything he wants. The Commonwealth actually encourages that, because there's now a fee for it that they will collect on 2011 state tax returns. :woot:

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:51 pm

Interesting. That will probably help with their secession plans, too.

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:13 pm

Well I'm shocked ... :o ... I never would have believed that if you didn't provide the link. Thanks!

You can tell I'm not much on reading MA law. THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM! :lol:


Great link Grumpy ... and a great idea! :idea: 8-) We should give the libs a dose of their own medicine ...
SMITTY
 
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Re: Evidence that MA 'worst in nation' gun laws don't work

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:06 pm

No problem. Maybe if we had a better...er...any Sunshine Law, it would be easier for people to know when that kind of thing gets changed.

Mike
Pacowy
 
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