Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

PostBy: JiminBucks On: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:39 pm

Anyone have any experience with tieing a hand fire coal stove into the same flue as an oil burner. I'm looking to only use one at a time, with a cap on the oil burner leg of the T if necessary. Now when the coal stove is cold, I thinking, then hook up the oil burner to use when away.
I had alot of problems using the Effel in the fireplace flue, so I put back my old wood burner for the family room.
My goal is to not use the oil burner at all, but maybe turn it on in the morning to help restart the Effel, which I couldn't keep burning more than 12 hrs in the fireplace flu.
Any issues with having both hooked into the same flue? I also going to replce the oil burner "damper" the swing air gate in the oil exit pipe with straight black pipe, letting the coal leg of the T serve that purpose.
JiminBucks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:09 pm

I have a manual at home that discusses this subject, it can be done so both units can be run at the same time. I would think it would fail the code almost anywhere and the insurance companies would have problems with it too. But that is not to say it won't work as the codes were written because of issues relating to burning wood I assume. I will try to post the info tonight. Of course removing the stovepipe from one when running the other should alleviate the code problem, but that would be a PITA.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

PostBy: e.alleg On: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:32 pm

I studied the code for a long time and came to the conclusion that it was written with chimney fires in mind. If there is a chimney fire while using a wood stove the fire departments are trained to shut off the air to the chimney. If code were to allow multiple inlets to the same flue your chimney fire could get out of control before the firemen could block off all the openings equaling an insurance payout. Not to mention some people are just plain dumb and would try to use a coal stove, wood stove, gas fireplace, LP hot water heater and dryer vent all in the same flue if the code didn't stop them. The only thing that I would check into is if the fly ash and oil residue mix in the chimney what will it form? It might make a clog or it might make nothing, I don't know.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

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PostBy: Yanche On: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:52 pm

I too have studied the fire code, discussed the issue with the Maryland State fire marshal and his staff. While they were understanding the bottom line is the code classifies coal as a solid fuel and the solid fuel rules apply. The suggestion was to influence a change in the fire code. Somewhere I have the contact names for the professionals that revise the fire code standards. I do remember one was a staff member at Underwriters Laboratories. Anyone up to the task of changing the standard? FYI until the PA state legislature exempted coal boilers it was illegal to have a non ASME stampted coal fired boiler in PA. This occurred only a few years ago.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:33 pm

OK, I have it on a PDF file. It is two pages from the Burnham Woodlander manual and shows the proper way to hook up a solid fuel add on and existing appliances together on one pipe. If anyone wants a copy just PM an E-mail address and I will send it to you.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Coal/ oil furence Tied together on one flue

PostBy: JiminBucks On: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:43 am

Thanks for the Info. Well my pipes are all fitted and in place. Moved the Classic Lion into place with the heat resistence shield behind i, protecting the only bit of drywall close. Everything else is at least 3 feet away, walls, door , washing machine. I'm just waiting for the high temp stuff around the flue redo to dry. I will test each one seperatly first.
Coaledsweat, can you send me the manual, before I fire up this setup.
Did you get my reply with my work email? Jim
JiminBucks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:31 pm

Do you want the whole Woodlander manual? Are you looking for stuff on handfireds? I can send you a few copied manuals. I did get your reply, send me your mailing address and I can get a few manuals to you.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Dual flue

PostBy: JiminBucks On: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:05 pm

Well fired up the Lion Sunday late afternoon. Was really easy to get nice blue flames, what a big difference from the fireplace chimney. I guess the breeze also helped. I did leave the oil burner hooked up, but "off and cold". Burned all night and heated the core of the house, but by 5:30 am it was almost burned out. Still a small patch of red coals that when out after slicing it, to clear the grates! I am going to disconnect the oil burner flue leg and cap it off for now, I what to see how much fly ash collects in the bottom part of the tie. Will try agin tonight, but later in the evening, so by morning , hoping to be able to restart!
JiminBucks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie

Re: Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

PostBy: JiminBucks On: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:14 am

Well, i gave in yesterday when I got home after work with the kids. The 'EFEL' I started in the morning burned all day , but was almost out by 6PM, just one hot spot. No chance of a normal restart. So I hooked back the oil burner 'flue pipe' , hardly any ash in the down section of the "Tee".
I fired up the 'old junker' and kept an eye on both. Slowly , my hot spot get brighter, and finally blue flames started dancing! Success!! :) By this time the house was warming back up via the baseboard. I did have to shut down the the oil burner, and the EFEL was back and pumping out the heat. It burned just fine all night, We were down to 16 degrees last night/morning. It did burn out by morning, I forget to add that 2nd bucket of coal before bed! :(
JiminBucks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie

Re: Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

PostBy: Mike Van On: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:16 pm

My Harman's been in the same flue as the oil boiler for 10 years - Usually one or the other runs, but sometimes both. The flue is 8" round, 25' I guess from the basement through the roof. I haven't had a problem, with fumes, smoke, whatever. There's a T just before the pipe goes into the masonry, Harman's the straight shot, oil takes a 90. I burn a lot more wood than coal, have had a few chimney fires too - No FD needed, I just close everything, let it burn itself out. My flue makes that hard glassy creosote up near the top, you can't get it off, I've tried. The fire will turn it into like pumice, then you can clean it. I know it won't meet code anywhere, but it does work.
Mike Van
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman dual fuel add on boiler
Stove/Furnace Model: SF 260

Re: Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

PostBy: JiminBucks On: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:51 am

Good to hear someone else has a simialar setup. :D I'm only burning coal in the EFEL thats hooked up with the oil furnace, to avoid the creoste problem! I do have to burn a small wood fire using dried oak strip flooring to get the old EFEL first started. Only need a handful of the stuff and it really burns hot and fast! So I don't think I will have any chimney fires! :roll: I will inspect and clean if needed, in the spring!
Yes like you I only plan to use one or the other, with the exception of the post before!
JiminBucks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie

Re: Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

PostBy: stoker-man On: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:19 pm

PA does require that any boiler used in a commercial application, even as small as a state legislators home office, must be registered with the state and also it must be coded.

Fire code issues aside, I could see where a downdraft could bring carbon monoxide down and through the other end of the T , unless it was totally sealed off.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

PostBy: JiminBucks On: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:56 pm

[quote="stoker-man"]PA does require that any boiler used in a commercial application, even as small as a state legislators home office, must be registered with the state and also it must be coded.

I don't understand this statement above? Are you saying I need to registar my stove somewhere? I have been using the coal stove side only, and had the oil burner "Tee" capped off, since I was very low on oil, with the burner shut down. I do have a CO2 detector upstairs in the hallway.
I will make a point of putting the cap back on!
JiminBucks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie

Re: Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:59 pm

Any boiler in a commercial business would require a permit to operate. As a homeowner, you are exempt. You still need the Fire Marshall's OK.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Question about Dual flu setup, Hand fired coal/ oil furance?

PostBy: stoker-man On: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:14 pm

The Labor & Industry boiler inspector in a good part of eastern PA is Nate Smith. If he sees any kind of commercial business sign outside of your house, and any kind of commercial business inside, he will stop in and inquire about the status of your boiler, if you have one. If it's not coded, you will have to replace it with a new one.

It wouldn't matter if you had just installed a brand new boiler. If it is not coded, it out of there. Not only that...there has to be 30 inches of unobstructed space around the entire setup, to a height of 6 feet. Furnaces are not inspected by L&I. I paid a fee for Nate to come to efm to clue me in on every standard before we install our two boilers. I only want to do it once.

This guy is one tough dude, but he is fair.

Homeowners are exempt, unless there is a commercial business operated out of the home.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

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