Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: grumpy On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:38 pm

DVC500 at last wrote:I feed my genertor into a dedicated 30 amp 240vac circuit breaker in the Main Panel. I have an InterLock, so I cannot have the Generator's Circuit Breaker and the Main Breaker both on at the same time.
Neutral feeds to gtround, eventually. No Need for seperate shut off for it.

Grumpy, nice switch. Looks like you could switch off New York City. How many Amps is that rated for?


Thanks, it's a 200 amp switch..

And Bravo ! yes an interlock, can we see it? If it's what I think it is it's a great way to go and cheep so why not do it to be covered and safe.
grumpy
 

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:41 pm

This is what I've had my eye on. Never needed it until I did. :lol:

http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Suppose I should find the money to do it right.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: grumpy On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:45 pm

jpete wrote:This is what I've had my eye on. Never needed it until I did. :lol:

http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Suppose I should find the money to do it right.


Right, thats what I'm talking about. It gets the job done, it's all you need.
grumpy
 


Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: 009to090 On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:49 pm

jpete wrote:This is what I've had my eye on. Never needed it until I did. :lol:

http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Suppose I should find the money to do it right.

Thats the company I ordered from. The unit I have, doesn't exactly fit my Main Panel, so they are currently custom-building my new switch. I'll post pics when I get the new one installed.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:57 pm

grumpy wrote:Here's my set up, no neutral kit in this switch..


Damn! That is a nice setup. I was looking at one of those switches when I bought my Generac generator but, it was unfortunately out of my budget. So, I opted for a Schneider Electric/Square D QO 60a Manual Generator switch.

Basically all it is, is an 8 circuit, 6 space sub panel that was equipped with two 60 amp breakers with an interlock device on both breakers. I swapped the two 60 amps out for two 30's and reinstalled the interlock. A third 30 amp breaker was installed in my main panel. The one breaker in the main feeds one of the breakers in the sub panel and the other breaker in the sub panel is fed to the 30 amp generator socket. When I lose power the generator breaker is flipped "ON" and the "FEED" breaker is automatically switched to "OFF" due to the interlock. I then have four circuits that feed my well pump, my furnace, and some sockets, then I have another small panel with two additional circuits in my house.

I installed the switch myself but had an electrician run the feed line; not because I couldn't do it myself I was an electrician for several years but because I hate crawlspaces, they are creepy.

Like it's been said before, you can backfeed through your dryer receptacle; but it's not safe.

The type of switch Grumpy has runs $300+ like I said, it was the one I would rather have. But the Schneider Electric/Square D QO 60a switch was $200 cheaper.

EDIT

Here is a pic of the panel I have. You can see the interlock kit on it. This is a pick I found surfing the 'net tomorrow I'll take actual pics of my setup.

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I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:48 pm

This is similar to what we have : http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... e&cm_ite=0

Bought it for the big Y2K scare. Finally had it installed a couple of years ago when we had new panels put in. After the last storm and finally getting the chance to use it, I discovered the electrician installed some wrong circuits. Basically we have the 220V well pump, oil burner, AA260, and supposedly 1 main circuit to power each kitchen including the MIL's next door. However the electrician wired our bedroom ceiling fan and my MIL's plant light instead of the kitchen circuits. The plan is to cover the necessities and then have 1 circuit each side for TV coverage.

Does anyone know what has to be powered for a FIOS system to operate ??



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:49 pm

The complete text of the 2005 edition of the National Electrical Code is available at the link listed below:

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www. ... ndbook.pdf

It's a huge pdf download (16.7 MBytes) as the document is almost 2000 pages. You want to look at Chapter 7 Special Conditions, ARTICLE 700 Emergency Systems for the generator installation requirements. Emergency back up power is what most of what we are interested in. The requirements are in "ARTICLE 702 Optional Standby Systems"

There is a narrowly defined method for connecting emergency generators. I quote below:

"Exception: Temporary connection of a portable generator without transfer equipment
shall be permitted where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only
qualified persons service the installation and where the normal supply is physically
isolated by a lockable disconnect means or by disconnection of the normal supply
conductors."

End quote.

Bottom line ... You need to read and understand the code and assure your installation meets the requirements.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:54 pm

Here's my transfer switch. If you look inside it, it's as simple as it gets - I could've built one myself. This unit was already installed when I bought the house - I just labeled everything .... and I installed a few more circuits of my own (not pictured here) ..... which pretty much defeats the purpose of having the transfer switch in the first place! :lol: But it sure makes it nice when the power is out. I labeled each wall switch with a number that corresponds to the breaker you need to turn off before throwing the switch on. Definitely need some common sense to operate this setup .... because if you throw 2 of the switches on without throwing the breakers, the street will feed 220 into the basement curly-cue lights! BANG! :lol:

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Inside transfer switch panel
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SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:04 pm

If you transfer the neutral, wouldn't you lose the ground rod at the meter?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:14 pm

At least at my place, the grounds all go ... to the ground, & the neutral goes up the pole, but only with the stepped-down 120V lines. No neutral in the main feed at the top of the pole, nor is there any on high tension lines.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:20 am

coaledsweat wrote:If you transfer the neutral, wouldn't you lose the ground rod at the meter?

I'd sure like to understand this idea of breaking or switching the neutral when there is a generator involved. Could someone post a NEC code book reference section that requires it. OR post a photo of a generator transfer switch insides that does it. I can't understand why you would need to do it. The only possible reason I can see is when there is a permanent generator installation that also has an earth grounding rod at the generator.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: chubs On: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:44 am

Our electric coop in Ohio are pushing these http://www.theenergycoop.com/mainNav/el ... rLink.aspx .
chubs
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: combustioneer 77
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker bit.
Stove/Furnace Make: Combustioneer
Stove/Furnace Model: 77

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:17 am

The link provided by forum member "chubs" is quite useful to anyone wanting to purchase and install a generator. It in turn references the manufacturer's web site:

http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm

There is a lot of useful generator info there. What caught my engineering eye was the following quote:

NOTE: Generators with Full Panel GFCI Protection (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) comply to OSHA inspections on job sites. These generators will not function when connected to a GenerLink since the home or building main breaker box also has a neutral bonded to ground. When both the generator and the home or building breaker box contains a neutral bonded to ground, the generator's GFCI will open and no outlets will function.

NOTE: Per the National Electric Code, all generators must have a "floating neutral" when used with the GenerLink Automatic Transfer Switch.


End quote

You can read it yourself here:

http://www.generlink.com/generators_main.cfm

There is a very complete list of generators and with compatibility notes. A must read. Note many Champion generator models, a brand referenced in other generator forum threads, are listed as not compatible.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:36 am

As promised, here are some pics of my setup.
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The tandem 30a on the right is for the generator the one on the left is the feed from the main panel.
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The 15a to the right of the generator breaker is for the oil furnace. Its been off since it has been underwater. I'm hoping after it stops raining I can maybe see if it still works.
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Model number cut sheet.
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I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: Electricians, generator hookup advice needed

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:45 am

Yanche wrote:........... NOTE: Generators with Full Panel GFCI Protection (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) comply to OSHA inspections on job sites. These generators will not function when connected to a GenerLink since the home or building main breaker box also has a neutral bonded to ground. When both the generator and the home or building breaker box contains a neutral bonded to ground, the generator's GFCI will open and no outlets will function. ..........

Well now that explains why I haven't been able to backfeed the barn with the new Yamaha. Damn GFCI kept tripping. Couldn't even backfeed the greenhouse. Had to eliminate the ground to make it work.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler