Ok, I Dunno What to Do...Help?

 
swededoc
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Post by swededoc » Mon. Sep. 12, 2011 6:52 pm

Sounds like you've got a few things going on--they're neighbors you have a friendship with, they're an older couple you want to 'take it easy' on, and you're not sure how to go about the whole thing in general. You also have to factor in the going rates in your area as well as your own skill level. Are you a professional tradesman? Or do you have another job and you're doing this on the side?

Since I'm in the trades professionally, I have to charge people. I'm not being fair to my family, myself, or my trade if I charge ridiculously low rates. Everyone suffers except the consumer. The trades are not always respected the way they were years ago, so working cheap only adds to the problem. At the same time, I have no problem with 'taking it easy' on people in special circumstances. The old-timer has paid his dues so this may be a place to work a little cheaper. It doesn't mean you have to give it away and he doesn't want you to.

Having moved from Northern NJ out to MI 14 years ago, I'm guessing the rates out there for what you're doing would be at $50-70/hr. You could check with the 'home handyman' services and see what they charge. Depending on his background, the old timer might have no idea what today's rates are. If this is your business, you can cut him a break, but don't leave your family in the dust--it's your livelihood. Done that waaaaaay too many times. If you're doing this on the side, I don't know. See what he thinks is fair.

The way T & M works is, all your time is covered from the time you arrive at his doorstep to the time you're done packing up and ready to drive away. Some trades charge some travel time--so add 20 seconds (bad joke). In this case, you probably don't want to mark up the materials. Maybe it's best to just bring it out in the open and see what everyone thinks is fair. There are some jobs I won't take when it gets complicated like this. It's not worth loosing a friend over.


 
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I'm On Fire
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Post by I'm On Fire » Mon. Sep. 12, 2011 7:10 pm

swededoc wrote:Sounds like you've got a few things going on--they're neighbors you have a friendship with, they're an older couple you want to 'take it easy' on, and you're not sure how to go about the whole thing in general. You also have to factor in the going rates in your area as well as your own skill level. Are you a professional tradesman? Or do you have another job and you're doing this on the side?

Since I'm in the trades professionally, I have to charge people. I'm not being fair to my family, myself, or my trade if I charge ridiculously low rates. Everyone suffers except the consumer. The trades are not always respected the way they were years ago, so working cheap only adds to the problem. At the same time, I have no problem with 'taking it easy' on people in special circumstances. The old-timer has paid his dues so this may be a place to work a little cheaper. It doesn't mean you have to give it away and he doesn't want you to.

Having moved from Northern NJ out to MI 14 years ago, I'm guessing the rates out there for what you're doing would be at $50-70/hr. You could check with the 'home handyman' services and see what they charge. Depending on his background, the old timer might have no idea what today's rates are. If this is your business, you can cut him a break, but don't leave your family in the dust--it's your livelihood. Done that waaaaaay too many times. If you're doing this on the side, I don't know. See what he thinks is fair.

The way T & M works is, all your time is covered from the time you arrive at his doorstep to the time you're done packing up and ready to drive away. Some trades charge some travel time--so add 20 seconds (bad joke). In this case, you probably don't want to mark up the materials. Maybe it's best to just bring it out in the open and see what everyone thinks is fair. There are some jobs I won't take when it gets complicated like this. It's not worth loosing a friend over.
No, I'm not in the trade. I was many years ago but didn't stick with it and went into a different field; that is still related but not directly. So, I'm only doing it on the side. I also didn't actively look for this job. It actually started when I asked him if he had a spare sump pump I could borrow and he handed me one while saying, "Its not working but its the only one I have. If you can get it working keep it." I got it working in a few minutes and when I tried to give it back he told me to keep it then said he had another one he wanted me to fix. Then I let him tie into my generator and when he asked how it was hooked up I had shown him. Then it just spiraled and he had said he had a few more jobs he'd like for me to look at and he'd pay me. I honestly don't want to be paid. But he insists.

If I figured it right I'd only be spending the $33 on the major parts for the light in his driveway, everything else I stock for my own use anyway. The 10% I figured would've been my time to go get the major parts. And yes, the average is quite a bit higher than I figured here in Jersey. I wasn't marking up the materials at all. I was just going to charge him what I paid, I was even going to give him the receipt and the excess that I didn't use on the job. Him and his wife even told me to figure what my time would be worth. I get paid around $20 an hour at my real job so figured that's what I'd charge them; even though the fields aren't the same.

This is why I came to the boards. Because I don't normally charge anyone when I do side work for them, which is rare but it does happen. I usually just render my services and that's it. But they are adamant about paying me. I'd much rather have a case of my favorite alcoholic beverage, a bag of kettle cooked salt vinegar chips, and some grilled chicken.

 
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Mon. Sep. 12, 2011 10:43 pm

I charge everyone for everything. The way this state is, I have to. I'll do stuff for free for the neighbors because they give me all kinds of fruits, vegetables, & stuff in their basement that they don't need anymore. One hand washes the other.

Also, there's been several times where I was cringing inside when I threw a price out, expecting a "how do you sleep at night" comment .... and in each instance I got the 180° opposite reaction. Alot of money to me apparently isn't alot of money to most people around here.

 
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SteveZee
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Post by SteveZee » Tue. Sep. 13, 2011 12:45 pm

Don't worry about it and just be reasonable. In the case of the pump he gave you then asked you to fix another, I'd have gone gratis on that because he gave you one for yourself. Everything else I would charge an hourly rate you feel is appropriate for the work. It's not like you can't use the money and your doing them a service because it would be a whole lot more to get a pro in there. I know that it's sometimes tough to ask for money but as long as it's reasonable for the service provided then they'll be fine with it. I'm sure they are insisting on payment because they want to be able to count on you when needed.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Sep. 13, 2011 1:13 pm

You know, at my age, there ain't much I still won't do, but when I have to call someone in, I give them what it was worth to me to have had them do it.With good friends doing something--who am I kiddin--I meant good FRIEND--singular :clap: toothy I pretty much have to tell him that I'm not so old I can't still kick his ass while he's refusing to take any money and I'm stuffing the $20.00 or whatever in his pocket. ;) BECAUSE, that's the way I am--no hidden agenda--don't read between the lines, there's nothing there!!

 
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I'm On Fire
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Post by I'm On Fire » Tue. Sep. 13, 2011 3:36 pm

Fred,

As per our conversation last night that's exactly what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do the work then tell them whatever it's worth to them is fine with me. That's how my buddy and I do it. He comes to my house does a bunch of work and I throw him a case of beer. I go to his house and do some work and he cooks me hot wings and gives me a case of beer.

That's why I had trouble with my neighbor asking me to do work for him. Because I'm not used to people paying me money. If my neighbor gives me some beer then I'll be good.

 
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Uglysquirrel
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Post by Uglysquirrel » Tue. Sep. 13, 2011 8:42 pm

Certified electrician with truck proposed to come over to create a 20' long 12 gage hookup wire with a L14-20 plug for a new genny. Parts would be about 45 his cost, he wanted 200 for everything. He said house visit was a flat 100 up front plus another 45 minutes.

Got off my butt, did the thing myself with 10 gage, ~65 bucks.

Hartferd, CT prices.

Ug


 
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Freddy
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Post by Freddy » Wed. Sep. 14, 2011 6:04 am

Is buying an electric water heater in MA still impossible? Here in Maine every hardware store sells them, but last time I was in MA, there were none to be had. I asked a salesman.... "Listen son, you need to be a licensed electrician to buy one, they are wholesale only". Sheesh!

 
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I'm On Fire
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Post by I'm On Fire » Wed. Sep. 14, 2011 12:34 pm

Freddy,

I know in Jersey you can buy hot water heaters at will. I bought one a few years ago to replace the one in my basement. Installed it myself too.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Wed. Sep. 14, 2011 1:01 pm

You gotta get a permit for everything in MA...
You even need a permit to dig a trench here...
Not a "big dig" type trench that needs to follow OSHA guidelines for cave in protection, just 2'-3' to run electrical conduit in...
And it needs to be inspected...
Then they say that they will be out to inspect in x weeks because of the backlog...
Not enough inspectors because there is no money in the town budget...
No *censored*, too many "stupid permits" to inspect because you want the cash from "permits and user fees" to make it seem like you have a low tax rate...
Prop 2.5 at work...
I understand there are lots of moron home owners that might not know how to read a code book but please...
Let the people work on their own homes and save some money if they know how to do the work...
Have the inspector check it to make sure it is done to code or better...
You need a licensed contractor to touch just about anything on your house in MA now...
A true "nanny state"...

 
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Sep. 14, 2011 1:10 pm

It is amazing how things vary by State/Town. I could truck in a 40 ton excavator and dig up my entire lawn...people will just blow the horn and wave as they drive by. Repair the septic? -No problem. New waterline? -Sure. They only time I ever seen a permit posted in this area is when someone is building a new house.

 
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Post by mikeandgerry » Wed. Sep. 14, 2011 1:41 pm

Skilled labor is worth at least twice as much as unskilled labor in the trades.

If the average unskilled laborer in your area gets 12/hr (say, in a factory or store) then skilled jobs should be worth 24/hr for each legitimate work hour (or pro-rated for partial hours). If the average laborer gets 15, then charge 30, etc. Additional workers will require an additional fee.

Then you have to figure in your overhead costs: depreciation on tools & vehicle, insurance, fuel and indirect hours, and minor consumables (pipe dope, wire nuts, etc). Quite often, this runs about 1/2 of the amount of your labor costs.

Then you have to add in the cost of materials. Always charge the customer what the customer would pay at the vendor because they will likely check. Don't forget to include the sales tax--you should be paying it at the time of purchase. Try to negotiate a contractors discount that you pocket.

The above is for figuring the total price.

To bill, keep it simple. Detail the materials but just charge an hourly rate which would include the overhead, that is, don't itemize the overhead, no one thinks they should have to pay that!

So, if your area is paying 15 for unskilled, you should have a standard rate of 45/hr plus materials.

Sometimes it is better for the customer to have a fixed price for a job, which will put them at ease and get you the work. One flat rate puts more risk on you. In those cases, you need to plan a percentage for contingencies, say 10-15% because you are taking on additional risk.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Wed. Sep. 14, 2011 1:46 pm

You know, after reading a bunch of these posts :( , I thank GOD that I live in Freetown where neighbors are still neighbors Damn, the world out there is way too complicated for this old farmer.

 
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Body Hammer
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Post by Body Hammer » Thu. Sep. 22, 2011 8:43 am

I agree with Fred. I do tons for my neighbors because they are either not handy, or elderly. Either way, I don't expect pay. But what I do get is fresh veggies out their garden. When my parents passed away; they all really came though with big food dishes and help with the services. They can't really repay me for all that I do; but I just hope when I am in their position there will be someone for us when we need it.
On the other hand; I do collision repair for a living. When they need my professional service, they expect to pay for it, knowing that is how I make my living. But I still give them a break on the hourly rate. $40.00 vs $44.00.
That's just my two cents worth. No, I'm sorry, this took about five minutes to compose; so that's $8.80. ;)

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Sep. 22, 2011 8:53 am

The checks in the mail my young friend. :clap: toothy


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