Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:02 am

I have a Leisure Line Lil' Heater with the TS2 thermostat and I would like to have the following temps. The times listed are one hour before we wake up and one hour before we get home at night.

5:30am - Turn up heat to 68 degrees.
7:30am - Turn down heat to 54 degrees.
4:00pm - Turn up heat to 68 degrees.
9:00pm - Turn down heat to 62 degrees.

But, since these vary by such large numbers and this is a coal stove, would it even be possible and would the fuel savings be significant enough to try?
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.

Re: Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

PostBy: pvolcko On: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:33 pm

Those are some big changes. Every house and installation is different so you should definitely give it a try, but history and comments over the years do lead me to believe that:

- It isn't worth the effort. Even with gas and oil furnaces it is arguable that the energy savings is marginal at best. The amount of energy needed to overcome the setback and get back to comfort level is large, very possibly as much or very near to what would have been used to maintain the comfort level temp. Also, highest energy is needed at night. Even with a setback (unless it is huge, like 20 degrees or more) the difference between night and day outdoor temps (and direct sun on the dwelling leading to additional heat loss tempering), the energy demand is much greater at night. So with the morning ramp up to get to comfort (especially for only a couple of hours of comfort) and the usually small setback (you lay out a 6 degree setback vs what can easily be a 20+ swing in outdoor temp plus loss of direct sun forcing on the dwelling) the savings are small or non-existent.

- You will likely need to extend the lead times on the upward changes. The stoves are slow to change heat output and our control, being geared more toward steady state temperature maintenance than effecting quick setpoint changes, slow it down more. I'd go with two hours on the 62->68 change and 3 hours on the 54->68 change. It will be a trial and error process to figure out the ideal for your installation.

One of the common issues people run into with big upward changes is overshooting. If you run into overshooting issues you may want to try limiting your MAX setting (try cutting it in half). It will increase the time it takes to reach a new temperature so you may need to move the setpoint out earlier. However, with a small stove and a normal sized house you may not run into that issue at all.

Once we get a new set of logic working to give superior setpoint change control while retaining the steady state control we'll let you all know.
pvolcko
 

Re: Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

PostBy: WNY On: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:44 pm

Most of us don't use the setbacks because coal reacts slowly.

If you do, I would go more than a degree and hour change, Coal takes time to react (not like gas or propabe furnaces that are instant heat) and it may take way longer to bring the temps up and then it overshoots and stays hot for a longer period, then goes below the setpoint and the cycle starts all over again.... :(

I usually leave mine on about 67-68 most of the time and it maintains it pretty good. I do have it set back at 11pm to 66 or 67 in case I raise it to 70 or so when home, then it sets it back if I forget.

Good luck, you can experiment, but you will quickly notice the overshoots/undershoots of the temps if there is too much temperature swings.

The Coaltrol will save you money by setting the feed rate back when not needed and maintain smaller fires to satisfy the temps. If the sun comes out and helps heat you house, it will pretty much go into an idle mode.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:45 pm

5:30am - Turn up heat to 68 degrees.
7:30am - Turn down heat to 54 degrees.
4:00pm - Turn up heat to 68 degrees.
9:00pm - Turn down heat to 62 degrees.


The IBM Watson supercomputer can be used for a lot of new things these days and my son who has some access time ran the program. Here is the output...... set it... forget it... those country horse hicks can be soooo stupid. Love that AnthraKing, test burn going on now.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

PostBy: Coalfire On: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:16 pm

set it and forget it, setback on a coal stove waste more fuel imho.


remember coal is like the turtle slow and steady wins the race :)


Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:03 pm

I would add 2 hours for every setting. If you change some of the preset feed rates your will be yo-yoing all over the place. If you want to heat a room you probably could do as you said. A house with a stove no way. What is really nice about the Coal-trol is in the shoulder months it is perfect for the warm days and cold nites, it really just coasts along and put the horsepower on when it is needed. In the cold months it to is great because it senses the warm days and adjusts. I would say 4 to 6 degree setback would be the most if you do not want to change your time for the stove to catch up and settle out. Take it easy and enjoy the steady heat :D :D Last year was cold and I got brave and never even turned on the thermostats for Buderus oil boiler to make up any loss, the wife never complained the Coal-trol did it all, and coal consumption was not an issue compared to years past.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:32 am

Another thing, if I want it to raise the temp faster, I go into the setup menu and put the FEED=10 (Mins). It will constant feed for 10 mins, get it burning nice and hot and I raise the blower up to about 50-60% and it heats up pretty quick.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Coal-Trol set-point recommendations.

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:17 pm

Coalnewbie,

A forum as large as this has people of all backgrounds and comfort levels with electronics and technology. Some, like myself, have grown up using computers and now sit in front of a computer monitor for the entire work day.

The coal-trol is a nice digital thermostat, but many of us want an even more advanced unit which I know Neil Waelder and his team could produce if the market would support it. For example, Jerry Steward from Leisure Line developed and marketed a CO alarm shutoff but the stove dealers wanted nothing to do with it because of liability concerns.

Here are some "nice-to-have" coal-trol upgrades that have been talked about by forum members:

1). Backlit LED display.
2). PC/Mac interface capability with internal data storage and serial communications jack.
3). Email and flashing led notification of near empty hopper using infrared eye sensor installed in the hopper.
4). Smoke/Fire/CO alarm interface that shuts down the stove if alarm is tripped.
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.