Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:21 pm

:mad: You know, it never ceases to amaze me how engineers can take a SIMPLE design that's worked for over 100 years, & change it into an absolute abortion. Case in point? Cub Cadet mower. :mad3:

So I get this mower that is shooting flames out the intake, with violent pullback of the recoil. I figure a nice, easy slam dunk - either sheared keyway or stuck valve. It was a valve problem, but it wasn't stuck - it wasn't MOVING ... because the valve guide worked it's way out of the head. Not only that, but the adjusting nut was GONE on the exhaust valve, & the adjuster's threads got beat pretty good, which then cracked the rocker. Bizarre ... and what was even more bizarre was the HONDA printed on the timing BELT below the PLASTIC camshaft!! WTF??? Now Honda is building crap?? This gets better ...

SO I go to remove the valve spring ... and the top of the valve comes off in my hand! Ok so it needs a valve now ... after I already ordered parts & gave the owner a price ... not too big of a deal. SO a new price gets quoted. Boy did I pork myself on this job!! Of course, THERE ARE NO BOLTS to remove the head! In fact, the head IS PART OF THE CYLINDER .... WHICH IS PART OF THE BLOCK! Are you f*** ing kidding me??? Why do manufacturers pull this *censored*!?!?

Now a simple 10 minute job has turned into an all day *censored* show. All gasket areas are SEALED with sealer ... that is as hard as a brick! Almost bent the valve cover in half trying to remove it .... and I can see that nice diagonal split in the block is LOADED with this *censored*. Great.

So anyone ever work on one of these styles before? It looks like I have to remove the blade & drag the rusty, pitted shaft across the bottom seal that isn't currently leaking .... and there's ZERO money left for a new one. I'll probably have 8 hrs into this piece of *censored* when I priced it for 10 minutes. Great .....

SO much for a quick easy job!! :rambo2: :shots:
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Timing BELT ......... & PLASTIC cam ...... oooooh booooy ....
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SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: 009to090 On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:05 am

I worked on one of those engines last month. Its the "New, Improved" Throw-a-way engine. Built as cheaply and fast as they can run them off the assembly line. They are a dime-a-dozen. Next time, Price for a new engine.

I would have done the same thing; given a price for a sheared crankshaft key, or possibly a valve. :oops:

Once you discover the actual damages, all bets are off of the price quote though. Your gonna need new gaskets too. Tell the customer what you actually found, how much it will really cost, and whether or not he wants you to proceed. :idea:
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: Coalfire On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:07 am

My uncle does small engine repair in the evenings, been doing it forever. I remember him talking about this he said they now have these engines you throw away cause they are virtually unservicable. like you said something about the head and block and all being one piece, doesn't make sense to me.

Just remember this is not the manufactures fault. they are trying to keep up with the demeand from the people. Society doesn't want a $600 dollar push mower, they want a $150 push mower with all the fetatures of the $600 one, so they must cut corners somewhere. Nevermind the consumer will have to buy 6 mowers in the next 10 years but they only see it as $150 oh well I'll get another.


My opinion lowes, HD, and walmart are running the quality right out of the country at the cost of a buck, then so the dealers can still make money there product line goes down, like JD selling tractors at lowes, such a shame :(

Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut


Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:18 am

Yaaa, Smitty.... you've got to tell the customer that you discovered the engine is made by Dixie Cup and that it can not be repaired. It's a whole new world out there. My local, very trusted appliance guy told me that it used to be washing machines were aimed to last forever. When they died in only 20 yrs the manufacturer would try to beef up the part that killed it. Those days are long gone. He says now they aim for any appliance to last five yrs. Sometimes they get it wrong and they'll last 8 or ten. If that happens they find a way to make the surviving parts cheaper.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:52 am

I gotta eat this one. My neighbor brought the thing to me ... and the owner has lots of things that need fixing, so I'm committed now. I'll let you all know how it goes. Waiting for parts now, so I have some time to cool off. :|

No gaskets whatsoever on this one - all sealer. Works for me though - one less thing to buy & eat into the profit.

Guess I'll wire wheel the hell out of that shaft & pull straight up. Looks like I can leave the lower portion in the deck. I managed to get the valve guide back in place. I grabbed it with Channel-locks to purposely gouge it a bit ... that way when I pound it back in, it has something to keep it from coming out again. I think it was actually forced out by the kickback from everyone trying to start it with the exhaust valve shut tight.

What a joke. I just sit back amazed at how our country has gone from top of the line, to bottom of the barrel in just a few short decades. Unbelievable .... :sick:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:05 am

SMITTY wrote:I grabbed it with Channel-locks to purposely gouge it a bit ... that way when I pound it back in, it has something to keep it from coming out again.

Clever! So when you get this thing back together it will be BETTER than new! But it still sounds like a losing battle -- will it structurally survive being taken apart and put back together?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:08 am

Yeah it's a solid block ... just has that strange diagonal split. It's going to be a ROYAL pain in the ass to get that apart though, judging from how difficult it was to remove just the valve cover .... and that split has 10x the sealer in it ... and it's 10x as big. Going to be some prying & swearing going on. And of course the heaviest part is on top of the split ... and I have to pull UP. :roll:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:14 am

Kinda makes you wonder why they make parts for a throw away engine, you would think that as soon as you look the # up it would say something like No Replaceable Parts.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: Yanche On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:59 am

There are ways to break down the molecular structure of RTV, then it will come apart easily. Not anything a happy owner could possibly afford. Often the connector shells on missile and spacecraft are potted with free flowing RTV. It's a real bitch to repair, even before launch. Impossible after launch. :-(
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: MURDOC1 On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:09 am

Coalfire wrote:My opinion lowes, HD, and walmart are running the quality right out of the country at the cost of a buck, then so the dealers can still make money there product line goes down, like JD selling tractors at lowes, such a shame


Couldn't agree one single bit more!!! If I ever see Stihl chainsaws for sale @ any of the stores Eric mentioned above I will throw in the towel all together!!!
MURDOC1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska/Franco Belge/Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: S.S. 2/ 144.08.02/ Mag Stoker

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: SteveZee On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:14 pm

Hey don't kid yourself. Even Stihl chainsaws have gone to hell if you don't buy the Pro models. The homeowner saws are modular junk motors.

Smitty, I've seen several of those motors. If you look at the code on those, you'll find that the expected service life on them is 250hrs. That's pretty sad if you ask me. Plastic camshaft! That takes the cake.

I have an old Gilson snowblower from the mid 70's. It's a 8hp Briggs 26" inch cut. That thing weights like 350lb! The metal is thick and there is nothing plastic on it. I've had to change the impellor on it once in 20 years I've owned it and that's because my driveway is bank run dirt and has allot of stones that have been throw over the center field fence over the years. :D The engines starts every time and other than a carb rebuild its been perfect. I was looking at the new models you see at HD. The sheet metal is so thin it's amazing they can hold a bearing and stay together and there's plastic spouts and everything else, all over them. Your better off looking for an older model that was well cared for IMHO.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: crazy4coal On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:37 pm

SMITTY wrote:Yeah it's a solid block ... just has that strange diagonal split. It's going to be a ROYAL pain in the ass to get that apart though, judging from how difficult it was to remove just the valve cover .... and that split has 10x the sealer in it ... and it's 10x as big. Going to be some prying & swearing going on. And of course the heaviest part is on top of the split ... and I have to pull UP. :roll:

:idhitit: With a BFH!
crazy4coal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: buderus
Stove/Furnace Model: logana

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:00 pm

^^^^ THIS. :yes:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: Dann757 On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:37 pm

Yanche wrote:There are ways to break down the molecular structure of RTV, then it will come apart easily. Not anything a happy owner could possibly afford.


HAHAHA you mean put it in a giant super arc-heated wind tunnel at mach 5? :D Apply 5700*f neutral oxy-acetylene flame? :o

C'mon give us the secret. :roll:


Coalfire wrote:Just remember this is not the manufactures fault.


I don't know whose fault it is but I want them prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

Freddy wrote:made by Dixie Cup

HAHAHHAAHa Dixie Cup I have a Dixee Cup starter in my Ford, I had to look for the one little fine print 'made in china' on the box, I feel sick for buying that starter to save money.

Didn't they have Chevy Vega motors with aluminum cylinders that were done at 35k?

Smitty you remind me of me; I tend to take responsibility for unforseen nightmares and treat the customer with too much regard. It comes from nice guy syndrome. :sick: The customer should cry when you give them your price! I wouldn't know, they usually walk away smiling with their great deal from me...
Dann757
 

Re: Another stupid engine design! How do I dissasemble this junk

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:48 pm

Yeah I suffer from that badly ........ although it doesn't come across that way in most of my postings ... especially the ones about MA ... or the current federal gov't crew. :lol:

You'd think I'd learn about being the 'nice guy' after those dates back in junior high .... :doh: :lol:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler