TLC 2000 - Controling the Burn

 
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dlj
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Post by dlj » Tue. Oct. 04, 2011 10:54 pm

warminmn wrote:Would it help slow down the burn if some wood was burned with the coal? For the extra ash that is. Just wondering
I'll throw in wood with my coal sometimes. The wood burns faster, gives off "faster" heat. I haven't found the fire to slow down from the ash, but I haven't burned a lot of wood with my coal. I usually use the wood to pick up a low coal fire like after I come back after being gone a long time and the coal fire is low. I'll get impatient to wait for the coal to pick back up and I'll just throw in some wood... Of course, my stove is made to burn wood or coal...

dj

 
Dann757
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Post by Dann757 » Wed. Oct. 05, 2011 12:14 am

Here's a chimney cap place in Oregon. http://www.chimneycapdesign.com/

These seem to be for windy areas and to increase draft. They might be able to recommend something though. Good luck way up there!

 
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Berlin
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Post by Berlin » Wed. Oct. 05, 2011 2:02 am

There's no need to burn wood with soft coal. wood is sometimes used to compensate for poor coal (high coke button) which is NOT a concern with your alaska subbit. Nothing positive will be accomplished by burning wood with your coal, the wood will just release its volatiles sooner and faster than the coal because of the heat from the higher temp fuelbed, and the lower ignition and volatile release temps of wood.

 
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SteveZee
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Post by SteveZee » Wed. Oct. 05, 2011 7:13 am

dlj wrote:
warminmn wrote:Would it help slow down the burn if some wood was burned with the coal? For the extra ash that is. Just wondering
I'll throw in wood with my coal sometimes. The wood burns faster, gives off "faster" heat. I haven't found the fire to slow down from the ash, but I haven't burned a lot of wood with my coal. I usually use the wood to pick up a low coal fire like after I come back after being gone a long time and the coal fire is low. I'll get impatient to wait for the coal to pick back up and I'll just throw in some wood... Of course, my stove is made to burn wood or coal...

dj
That is quite helpful for my Glenwood range too. If I find the fire quite low and it needs a shake down, I'll add a small split or two of maple on top and it seems to help revive the fire faster so that I can add a scoup or two and not worry about losing the fire by shaking it when it's low.

 
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rockwood
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Post by rockwood » Wed. Oct. 05, 2011 7:22 am

Berlin wrote: If someone is new at burning soft coal they may not understand that it must be kept clear of soot (keeping the mpd close to the stove helps with this problem, the closer it is the less soot buildup you'll have) and there is a greater risk than with other fuels that this will happen. The need and benefit of a MPD or baro is situational and each come with their own risks and problems.
My experience with MPDs when burning soft coal is the same as Berlin's. Depending upon the volatile matter in the coal, size of coal being burned, and how you load and control the stove will all affect how quickly soot builds up on a manual pipe damper.
I recommend inspecting the flue and pipe damper frequently for soot buildup until you get a firing routine figured out. If you have a chimney cap with screen/mesh in it, you will need to watch for soot buildup there as well.


 
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Kielanders
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Post by Kielanders » Wed. Oct. 05, 2011 4:12 pm

rockwood wrote:
Berlin wrote: If someone is new at burning soft coal they may not understand that it must be kept clear of soot (keeping the mpd close to the stove helps with this problem, the closer it is the less soot buildup you'll have) and there is a greater risk than with other fuels that this will happen. The need and benefit of a MPD or baro is situational and each come with their own risks and problems.
My experience with MPDs when burning soft coal is the same as Berlin's. Depending upon the volatile matter in the coal, size of coal being burned, and how you load and control the stove will all affect how quickly soot builds up on a manual pipe damper.
I recommend inspecting the flue and pipe damper frequently for soot buildup until you get a firing routine figured out. If you have a chimney cap with screen/mesh in it, you will need to watch for soot buildup there as well.
Good Points, thanks. Fortunately, with the position of the MPD in the stove collar, when I remove the cleanout port on the stove I can visualize it. With the amount I'm burning, it would be good to check it every week or so.

 
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SteveZee
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Post by SteveZee » Wed. Oct. 05, 2011 5:19 pm

I would certainly check it but in that location, I'd be willing to bet that it's in such a hot area that you will not have a problem with soot.

 
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ontheroad
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Post by ontheroad » Sat. Nov. 12, 2011 12:08 am

have read your problems with draft control I have the same stove did you try to tighten the draft on the ash door I know that mine is loose and that when I get home plan on shimming it so is tighter

 
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Post by Kielanders » Sun. Nov. 13, 2011 2:31 pm

ontheroad wrote:have read your problems with draft control I have the same stove did you try to tighten the draft on the ash door I know that mine is loose and that when I get home plan on shimming it so is tighter
Ontheroad, for me, the only thing that has helped restrict air flow at the primary draft control, is that I have taken 1" diameter stove rope gasket material and have very loosely packed 1 layer over the top and 2 layers on the bottom in the cavity between the damper door and the metal protector plate of the damper.

It is very finicky, and may restrict the air too much, I've really had to play with it. And often, depending on where I'm at with my burn, I may have to remove one or the other to get the desired results.

If you find a way to access the primary damper itself, please let me know. I worked with it for a bit trying to dissemble, but it seemed I would have to remove the ash door gasket and possibly have to bend some metal flanges to gain access, which is more than I wanted to do. The stove was under fire because we needed the heat, which makes it difficult to take your time and do it safely.

Another thing that has helped, is that I have tightened the nuts on the secondary air controls. They're still hand adjustable, but snug. The unfortunate thing is that the holding nuts loosen with use, so I need to slide the side panels off and tighten them on occasion.

My guess at this point is that because the stove is also designed to burn wood as well as coal, Harman purposely kept the stove more breathable to allow for higher stack temps and prevent creosote build-up. Although, as it was sold to us, one is supposed to use the optional fire screen that they sell separately for burning wood (the door should be removed?). If that is the case, it would then negate the use of the primary damper. So that thought doesn't make complete sense either.

Our SF-250 on the other hand, will purr along at 300/350 F all day on 40lbs of Sub-Bit. Sometimes it's hard to believe the two stoves are from the same manufacturer. I see you're in Palmer. We talked with distributors all over the state, and while the folks were very nice, I would say it's fair to state that their knowledge of coal burning in general is very limited to non existent. One dealer did present himself as knowledgeable on coal, but we found his advice to essentially be incorrect, now that I have experience and the folks on this forum to run past ideas.

 
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Post by ontheroad » Tue. Dec. 06, 2011 10:49 am

just got back to your post and can agree with you about the dealers not much help on your own and it does look as if the tabs will need to be bent to get the out side cover off don't know what else but looks like all when I get back home am going to pull mine apart and see if I can put some shim stalk in to tighten the slide up as well as do the retrofit of the hitzer auto draft think that will help keep a more even room temp


 
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Kielanders
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Post by Kielanders » Wed. Dec. 07, 2011 12:01 am

ontheroad wrote:just got back to your post and can agree with you about the dealers not much help on your own and it does look as if the tabs will need to be bent to get the out side cover off don't know what else but looks like all when I get back home am going to pull mine apart and see if I can put some shim stalk in to tighten the slide up as well as do the retrofit of the hitzer auto draft think that will help keep a more even room temp
One thing that has really helped me that I started the past two weeks, although it may have been obvious to others, is to load only one coal hod every 6 hours. When I load, it is all to one side, so it slopes. I try to prevent the new load from overlapping the remaining coals from the last load on the other side of the unit. Depending on whose definition you accept when you look-up the word, I would call it banking the fresh load.

Doing this has given me a very nice even burn, even with our sub-bit coal. Prior to this, I was always having problems getting the new load going, and when it would get going, the volatiles would be given off too fast and the load would burn very quickly. This has prevented that problem, and I rarely have to adjust the dampers after placing the new load. As a result, the remaining coal from the last load slowly ignites the new coal load in a very controlled manner.

Also, we just purchased a Magic Heat reclaimer. After some discussions with the factory folks about our situation with sub-bit coal, they recommended installing the unit right on the stove collar before the run of chimney pipe. I'm probably going to install it this weekend, I'll let you know how it's doing if you're interested. We're hoping the reclaimer will give us a little extra boost when the outside temps drop below 15 F, and we have to run our stove hotter.

 
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Post by ontheroad » Wed. Dec. 07, 2011 10:41 am

yes do and I did the same with loading my stove last summer other wise got the same thing about 3 am house felt like sona seamed kinda funny if I threw in a hand full every so often worked great fire would burn from one side to the other and back with the way our coal burns it lights so easy one time started fire with just paper

 
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Post by Kielanders » Sun. Dec. 11, 2011 9:06 pm

ontheroad wrote:yes do and I did the same with loading my stove last summer other wise got the same thing about 3 am house felt like sona seamed kinda funny if I threw in a hand full every so often worked great fire would burn from one side to the other and back with the way our coal burns it lights so easy one time started fire with just paper
Ontheroad,

I installed the Magic Heat unit yesterday. I have a few observations.

One, while the factory rep said that based on the characteristics of our sub-bit coal, we could install it right on the stove collar and probably not have to worry about over cycling the unit. However, I installed the unit about 10" above the stove collar, as this allows the top load door to fully open. Additionally, I think the unit looks better that close to the stove, and makes them appear as a single unit. As the Magic Heat is large, I was worried that it would look odd any distance up the chimney pipe, and be an unattractive visual distraction to the install.

Two, the unit is designed to be installed with it's pipe crimped-end toward the stove. I have read where some burning coal install pipe crimped-end toward the chimney cap as there is no creosote issue with coal. I'm not sure about your pipe install, so I just thought I'd mention it.

Three, the instruction manual says to leave the creosote scraper knob pulled about 4 inches out from the Magic Heat. This is to prevent overheating of the knob. Whether it is heat coming from being close to the stove, or heat coming off the unit, we found it better to have the knob pulled-out from the unit about 6", as the knob was slightly uncomfortable to the touch at 4" out.

Four, we have found that the unit is cycling at about 5 minutes on, 10 minutes off. That is fine for us, and though the blower is stronger than the blower on the TLC, it is actually quieter and 'humming' at a lower frequency that is not irritating, not that the TLC blower aggravates us either.

Five, while I haven't noticed radically lower pipe temperatures, the unit is obviously circulating more heat. Additionally, from the mounting of the unit and it's configuration, it obviously isn't pulling the heat from the stove and must be pulling it from the pipe. I attribute this to thermometer quality and placement possibly.

Six, we did notice a change in how the coal is burning, so we've needed to change our technique of tuning the primary damper, secondary dampers, and the MPD. We're still playing with combinations for what works best.

Finally, since this has only been our first full day using the unit, more experimentation and observation is needed; but overall, we feel like the unit has been a definite positive addition to our install as we are noticing formerly colder backrooms with a significantly higher temperatures while burning the same quantity of fuel.

...we'll keep you posted

 
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Post by ontheroad » Wed. Dec. 14, 2011 1:58 am

thanks for all the info and will keep them all in mind wright now not doing anything with stove as am in AZ now

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