Thermostat ???

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:06 pm

Frytown wrote:What tells the circulator to kick on?


Your triplestat does it automatically when a call for Heat from the wall stat is made.

Remember, AA Boiler would be controlled from stat threw 1st stage compressor Y terminal screw.

You don't need any circulation when your using forced air propane furnace this is Emergency/Aux Mode...1st stage is locked out from stat.

The AA boiler will continue to Hold A Fire w/ timer, though...unless you switch off the whole boiler.

The real question is, What turns the fan on? Answer is the Green Wire...Boiler never sees it...it see the 1st stage wire Y...fan G will be switched automatically by stat to FA Furnace at same time 1st stage Y comes on to boiler.

AA Boiler gets only 2/ wires...Y and C to a 24 volt single pole isolation relay wired to it's coil...normally open contact of relay has 2/wires to 8124 aquastat (T.T.) to call for boiler heat.

FA Furnace gets 4/ wires R, AUX/E, G and C, which C is shared w/ both boiler and furnace.

Do you have 5/ wires now at stat?
You never mentioned air conditioning???
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: ValterBorges On: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:43 am

Frytown,
Here is what Bill said:

on the propane furnace you could put a heatpump thermostat on it and when u want just furnace to run switch thermostat to emergency heat ill find a thermostat that will work and draw a wiring diagram.

I'll post the wiring diagram when he sends it.
ValterBorges
 
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: McGiever On: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:53 am

ValterBorges wrote:Frytown,
Here is what Bill said:

on the propane furnace you could put a heatpump thermostat on it and when u want just furnace to run switch thermostat to emergency heat ill find a thermostat that will work and draw a wiring diagram.

I'll post the wiring diagram when he sends it.


Exactly what I have described above.

His TH5230U Honeywell Programmable will do it perfectly if programmed as such.

3H/2C Heat
Pump System
(TH5320U only)
Rc Power
R [R+Rc joined by jumper]
Y Compressor contactor (stage 1) via isolation relay (Boiler)
C 24VAC common (both Boiler and propane FA Furnace)
O/B Changeover valve (not used)
G Fan relay (operates fan for either Boiler heat exchanger or propane FA Furnace)
Aux/E Auxiliary/Emergency heat relay (propane FA Furnace)
Y2 Compressor contactor (stage 2) (not used)
L Sends output when set to Em. Heat (not used)
TH5230U.pdf
(3.55 MiB) Downloaded 10 times
Select:BBcode: [nepafile=29721]TH5230U.pdf[/nepafile]
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:35 pm

Frytown wrote:
I do remember this from AAfireman "I have 2 thermostats, 1 for the heat pump a/c, one for the coal. The aquastat is on the wire that goes to the squirl cage fan motor, the aquastat makes on temp rise when the bulb gets hot that is straped to the fancoil. I have a switch on the thermostat to run the fan all the time, and the aquastat on the fancoil makes and breaks so the fan only runs when the fancoil is hot. This way I did not have any electric backfeeds between the 2 systems, The HEAT alone tells the fan to start and stop.. "

I must say THANKS for getting me to thinking, I used the aquastat to make and break the electric to the squirl cage fan, why not just run off the low voltage thermostat wires on the a/c thermostat. Well I rewired it last night and it works well, runs a little longer, the a/c tells it to run an extra minute, but now I don't need to flip a switch between winter and summer a/c and can leave the heat pump on, set at a lower temp (JUST IN CASE) something would go wrong :oops: . Just 12' of 2 wire thermostat wire between the R red and the G green to the aquastat. :D Any still no electric backfeeds between the 2.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:30 pm

What about AirConditioning??? Ill read it again to see if I get it. I do have central air.
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:32 pm

This was Honey Wells Response to my question previously

"Thank you for contacting Honeywell.

Your best bet is a TH8321U and a outdoor temperature sensor. There is a setting on this to lock out the aux heat at a certain degree.Also one to lock out the compressor as well. You can also set it to em heat to just use your secondary heat source. You will need to go to a contractor for this model and installation."
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:48 pm

My guy I asked to do it cant get it done before the weekend, so I guess Im going to wrap my brain around this issue. More help to describe any wiring details? heres what the system has, AA boiler 1 circulator that goes through the plenum of ductwork, using the blower from the Nordyne 90+ Propane furnace with A/C unit . So entire system is forced Air. I might have missed it in your description, but I dont see anything handling the Airconditioning. Not that I really care about that this time of the year. Really like the description on the wiring !
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:51 pm

Re: Thermostat ???
By: McGiever On: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:06 pm

Frytown wrote:
What tells the circulator to kick on?
Your triplestat does it automatically when a call for Heat from the wall stat is made.
Remember, AA Boiler would be controlled from stat threw 1st stage compressor Y terminal screw.
You don't need any circulation when your using forced air propane furnace this is Emergency/Aux Mode...1st stage is locked out from stat.
The AA boiler will continue to Hold A Fire w/ timer, though...unless you switch off the whole boiler.
The real question is, What turns the fan on? Answer is the Green Wire...Boiler never sees it...it see the 1st stage wire Y...fan G will be switched automatically by stat to FA Furnace at same time 1st stage Y comes on to boiler.
AA Boiler gets only 2/ wires...Y and C to a 24 volt single pole isolation relay wired to it's coil...normally open contact of relay has 2/wires to 8124 aquastat (T.T.) to call for boiler heat.
FA Furnace gets 4/ wires R, AUX/E, G and C, which C is shared w/ both boiler and furnace.
Do you have 5/ wires now at stat?
You never mentioned air conditioning[/u]???


ANSWER YES I DO HAVE AIRCONDITIONING. Where would those wires go?

I went and got a 24v Isolation Relay. Anything else Ill need to get this done?
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:00 pm

The thermostate I have is actually a 532OU1001
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:44 pm

Okay, A/C does change it a bit...

2H/2C System
(1 transformer)
Rc 24VAC Power
R [R+Rc joined by jumper]
Y Compressor contactor (stage 1) (A/C)
C 24VAC common
W Heat relay (stage 1) isolation relay Boiler
G Fan relay
W2 Heat relay (stage 2) FA Furnace
Y2 Compressor contactor (stage 2) (not used)

AA Boiler gets only 2/ wires...W and C to a 24 volt single pole isolation relay wired to it's coil...normally open contact of relay has 2/wires to 8124 aquastat (T.T.) to call for boiler heat.

FA Furnace gets 5/ wires R, Y, W2, G and C, which C is shared w/ both boiler and furnace.

Need 6 wires to stat now.

This doesn't lock out the boiler like before...even if the coal fire is out, a call for heat is still made to boiler, just that it calls on FA Furnace in addition to boiler.

Now if you want to flip-flop, make FA Furnace Heat stage1...and boiler Heat stage 2, so if your away for a few days the FA Furnace will truck along on 1st stage only. When you would return home, just switch off the FA Furnace "W Heat relay" (stage 1) and boiler will take over on 2nd stage.

Either way, isolation relay is for the boiler.

Wrapping your head around and completing this wiring is just part of the battle...you will still need to program the stat to this configuration. :) But, at least that can be done while in a recliner. :D
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:59 pm

Understand thanks for the help. Hopefully going to get the thermostate done solo tomorrow. I'm going to give the whole place a good once over. Cleaning etc. Temps are supposed to be way up first two days next wek, altered the countdown for fire till tuesday afternoon. Then I should be comfortable with starting it up and trying the paces. Coal is comming tomorrow! So ill give the unit a unlit test run to make sure circulator. Kicks on, but don't know ifit will when there is no fire? I also thought about trying to figue out how to controll the boiler if no fire is detected? Maybe put a single pole switch some how between high limit and the aAqua stat. Rumor I heard was throw the switch to build the fire and once up to temperature throw the switch other wat. If it gets below a certain temperature it cuts power to th e boileR
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:01 pm

GOT COAL only one ton! But getting ready to start the fire on tuesday.
My delivery guy said coal prices are going up big time! He said the bigger mines are shut down for one reason or another something to do with the government I think. And alot of the smaller operations are out of business. Guess Im gonna have to keep my eye out for my own dump truck and elevator. he delivers one truck of rice from the mine in five days, now they told him hes only going to be getting 2 trucks for the rest of the year because of the cut back in production. Hope this is all B.S. Other wise Ill start driving my pickup up to get my own.
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:26 pm

Your coal guy needs to find a new source.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:32 pm

There are a lot of coal suppliers to choose from in this area. So I hope he was misinformed.

Back to the thermostat...
Got it going with help from McGiever. I did it with my original State TH5220D (helps to look at model you have before you go buy) and the Isolation Relay.

A.A. BOILER got T T fed from ISOLATION RELAY

ISOLATION RELAY got W & C from thermostat

FORCED AIR FURNACE got C R Y W2 G from thermostat C was split at unit

Had a glitch on the programming of the stat but was really simple to fix.
System type was 2h/2c
Fan Control (where the fix came) Changed this setting to 1 for Electric Furnace- thermostat controls fan in heating
NOTE: (Although this selection was made the Propane furnace still controlled it's own fan when it jumped into second stage. it shut down the fan to ignite the gas then kicked on when got to temperature.)
All the other settings were typical of 90+ or forced hot water systems.

Thanks to all for your input. Really glad I went with the isolation relay it saved me dough like $70 and was simple to install and not confusing for the wife! :P
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Thermostat ???

PostBy: Frytown On: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:19 pm

Something else that came about.
I have a L7224U Aquastat controller.
AA calls for a L8124C
Any one see any possible problems with this :shock:

Also installed the Relief valve in hole #10 on the unit on the top, when they call for it to go in #12 at the business end above the DHW coil, I really dont see any difference, but Im not the expert here. Could be just simpler out that end to keep the piping close to the door hinge? I did have the 1" step off flange welded on the unit to prevent the gasket at the DHW from overheating as well. :?
Frytown
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130 to FHA
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Visit Lehigh Anthracite