Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:55 pm

Can this be done?

Close the system (with a valved fill piped in) and run a loop through the coil to the boilermate and back? Essentially making the hot water coil 'boiler water'?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:20 pm

Are you trying to make the boilermate an indirect water heater off of a stove coil ? Seems like alot of expense if it does not work, and you will need an expansion tank for it, pump,air separator, aquastat, etc. If you want to do that route, why not just circulate the domestic water between the coil and your current hwh. Or if you want the stove to do a boilers job, buy a coal boiler :P . :D :D :D Does the coil have a btu output rating ?
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:40 pm

AA130FIREMAN wrote:Are you trying to make the boilermate an indirect water heater off of a stove coil ? Seems like alot of expense if it does not work, and you will need an expansion tank for it, pump,air separator, aquastat, etc. If you want to do that route, why not just circulate the domestic water between the coil and your current hwh. Or if you want the stove to do a boilers job, buy a coal boiler :P . :D :D :D Does the coil have a btu output rating ?


Ah, you would need an expansion tank, right?

So a closed system off the hot water coil wouldn't be very practical ....unless I could tie the coil into the boiler's expansion tank?

The advantage of using the boilermate (aside from it being only 5 years old :x ) is that it allows me to adjust the temp, and stores a bunch more water at any one time.

I doubt it would be more efficient to use, but I could be wrong.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:47 pm

I did not realize you were going to tie into existing boiler with the coil, then you would not need (as long as you don't ball valve closed the supply and return) an extra expansion tank, pressure relief valve, etc. I would find out what kind of output the coil has, why send in a boy to do a mans job :lol:
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:58 pm

You could just try to circulate the boiler water threw the stove coil to heat and achieve the same result (except for heat loss in pipes,insulation), btu's = btu's(they both store energy, depends on the efficience %). I could try to warm the ocean by pi**ing in it, but doubt their would be any great effect. :lol:
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:07 pm

AA130FIREMAN wrote:You could just try to circulate the boiler water threw the stove coil to heat and achieve the same result (except for heat loss in pipes,insulation), btu's = btu's(they both store energy, depends on the efficience %). I could try to warm the ocean by pi**ing in it, but doubt their would be any great effect. :lol:


Yes, that would be an option, but the way I'm plumbed atm it would be much easier to change the coil then the boiler. ;)

Oop, you probably think I'm coming off a stove to a boiler. I'm coming off the hot water coil on my boiler...... :)
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:13 pm

You could do it...but why would you want to when you could just pipe the Boilermate as a zone off your new boiler? I have seen tankless coils used as a heat exchanger for a zone with antifreeze in it, but you would need to add a fill valve, PRV, circulator, some means of air removal, etc etc. It would be much simpler (and cheaper) to just run a zone off the supply and return of your boiler piping.

As for the efficiency of the Boilermate vs. the tankless...I think if the storage of the Boilermate allows you to run a lower feed rate and/or temperature in the LL boiler, then you would save a little coal. That was my experience when I switched from a tankless to an indirect.
Last edited by Rob R. on Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:19 pm

kstills wrote:
Oop, you probably think I'm coming off a stove to a boiler. I'm coming off the hot water coil on my boiler...... :)

YES, now you have me lost. The domestic coil inside the boiler and the boiler water don't mix, unless their is a leak :P , then you would need an expansion tank, air separator, pressure reducing valve, pressure relief valve.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:23 pm

kstills wrote:
The advantage of using the boilermate (aside from it being only 5 years old :x ) .

How are you running it now and why would you want to change it ???? NOW I an really bewildered :o :shock: :? :lol:
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:46 am

markviii wrote:You could do it...but why would you want to when you could just pipe the Boilermate as a zone off your new boiler? I have seen tankless coils used as a heat exchanger for a zone with antifreeze in it, but you would need to add a fill valve, PRV, circulator, some means of air removal, etc etc. It would be much simpler (and cheaper) to just run a zone off the supply and return of your boiler piping.

As for the efficiency of the Boilermate vs. the tankless...I think if the storage of the Boilermate allows you to run a lower feed rate and/or temperature in the LL boiler, then you would save a little coal. That was my experience when I switched from a tankless to an indirect.


How much is a 'little coal'?

I'm going to replumb the entire system next summer, so it would make sense to hook it up then if it would mean some measurable savings in fuel.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:12 pm

kstills wrote:
markviii wrote:You could do it...but why would you want to when you could just pipe the Boilermate as a zone off your new boiler? I have seen tankless coils used as a heat exchanger for a zone with antifreeze in it, but you would need to add a fill valve, PRV, circulator, some means of air removal, etc etc. It would be much simpler (and cheaper) to just run a zone off the supply and return of your boiler piping.

As for the efficiency of the Boilermate vs. the tankless...I think if the storage of the Boilermate allows you to run a lower feed rate and/or temperature in the LL boiler, then you would save a little coal. That was my experience when I switched from a tankless to an indirect.


How much is a 'little coal'?

I'm going to replumb the entire system next summer, so it would make sense to hook it up then if it would mean some measurable savings in fuel.


5-7 lbs per day, according to my records. Most of the savings is from being able to run a lower feed rate & boiler temperature, and not having as much standby losses or timer-driven consumption. Every setup is different, so your mileage may vary. :)
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:24 pm

markviii wrote:
kstills wrote:
markviii wrote:You could do it...but why would you want to when you could just pipe the Boilermate as a zone off your new boiler? I have seen tankless coils used as a heat exchanger for a zone with antifreeze in it, but you would need to add a fill valve, PRV, circulator, some means of air removal, etc etc. It would be much simpler (and cheaper) to just run a zone off the supply and return of your boiler piping.

As for the efficiency of the Boilermate vs. the tankless...I think if the storage of the Boilermate allows you to run a lower feed rate and/or temperature in the LL boiler, then you would save a little coal. That was my experience when I switched from a tankless to an indirect.


How much is a 'little coal'?

I'm going to replumb the entire system next summer, so it would make sense to hook it up then if it would mean some measurable savings in fuel.


5-7 lbs per day, according to my records. Most of the savings is from being able to run a lower feed rate & boiler temperature, and not having as much standby losses or timer-driven consumption. Every setup is different, so your mileage may vary. :)


Well now, those add up to real numbers. :)

Guess I'll include this in my future plans.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:37 pm

I run an indirect water heater (30 gallon) off the stoker on it's own zone w/pump. The advantage is the indirect is insulated, and the boiler is not. I have it down to a science (I THINK :o ) but starting off, I lost a fire while at work, and still had enough hot for a shower, and the misses too, without any complaints :mad: untill I had things roaring again.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:39 pm

kstills wrote:
Well now, those add up to real numbers. :)

Guess I'll include this in my future plans.


I don't know if you would get the same results with your boiler, considering it is 1/4 the mass of my EFM, and insulated. The tankless is already there, so there is no harm in hooking it up to see what you think of the performance. I seem to remember you were using pex...use 5/8" or 3/4" on the tankless.

AA130FIREMAN wrote:I run an indirect water heater (30 gallon) off the stoker on it's own zone w/pump. The advantage is the indirect is insulated, and the boiler is not. I have it down to a science (I THINK :o ) but starting off, I lost a fire while at work, and still had enough hot for a shower, and the misses too, without any complaints :mad: untill I had things roaring again.


That is the biggest perk of an indirect...STORAGE. I re-piped our second floor radiators this morning, and also shut the EFM down for a cleaning. Everything was off for almost 6 hours, and the 80 gallon indirect had no trouble with multipe showers, laundry, dishes, etc.

Why is your AA going out? Poor draft?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Running a boilermate off of the hot water coil

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:25 pm

markviii wrote:
Why is your AA going out? Poor draft?
I don't see much trouble anymore, going good all summer. I did play with the anthrastat at first and it would not ash enough, and I clean out the stovepipe more often , these led to outfires. I run the timer 1 minute once an hour and this keeps it going well . I did every 1/2 hour in the past and currently see just as good results by the hour.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Visit Leisure Line Stove