AHS S130 Coal Gun : First Fire

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 7:20 pm

Could it be because mine is a UL Listed model? AHS told me the UL models are wired differently in order for them to qualify for the UL rating. The manual has not been updated and does not show a wiring schematic for a UL listed AHS Coal Gun.

But on the other hand I seem to be set up pretty much just as McGiever suggested above.

ValterBorges · Post by **ValterBorges** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 7:23 pm

Mine is ASME and UL rated also.

ValterBorges · Post by **ValterBorges** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 7:24 pm

I wish AHS would officially chime in and comment on the proper and best way to wire these.

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 7:25 pm

ValterBorges wrote:I wish AHS would officially chime in and comment on the proper and best way to wire these.

I fully agree! I also wish they would update and improve their operating manual and schematics.

ValterBorges · Post by **ValterBorges** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 7:33 pm

I sent Patrick and Ben and email hopefully they'll chime in.

Post by **Rob R.** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 8:01 pm

This is very confusing. I understand having a high limit control with a separate control for a dump zone, but which control serves as the low limit? I wonder why they don't just use a triple aquastat...

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 8:50 pm

I just did a search of the term "limit" in a PDF of the Coal Gun manual, and the only hits were for high limit, operating limit, and dump zone limit. No mention of any low limit, sans for once near the end of the manual in an appendix on page 51 (of 56) in conjunction with the circulator in a dual furnace set-up in order to cut it off when the temperature is too low. I added an extra aquastat to accomplish circulator cut-off at low temperature. No mention of "low limit" at all in the "Controls" section of the manual.

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 10:20 pm

Now I'm confused

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2011 10:44 pm

Now I'm confused

Valter, yours is reversed from this in your picture.

lsayer, yours shouldn't be both set the same.

I must have my annotation messed up...

Well, seems there are at least a couple ways to wire this depending on what options were built in on a particular order.

With the Dual A'stat I see 2 possibilities, if you want circ. pumps off when temp goes below a set point(140*), or another way, if you wanted a Dump Zone to start...Low Limit of Dual A'stat (N/O)

Now similar deal, with an added L4006, 2 possibilities, use it for your High Limit or for your Operating Limit.

Valter, yours looks like Dual A'stat Low is for Circ. Pumps low cut out and High is for your Dump Zone. L4006 would be for your Operating Limit Limit

lsayer, your Dual A'stat Low may be your Operating Limit and High Limit is your Dump Zone. L4006 would be your circ. pump low cut out.

It's the best I can do from here.

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Wed. Oct. 26, 2011 1:24 am

lsayre wrote:Valter, no that is not how I have mine set.

The right hand side of my L4081B is set to 200 degrees (and so is the left hand side, but that is my dump zone control). My L4006 is set to 180 degrees.

I'm set up pretty close to the way McGiever said to do it (see his post above).

I don't know if Valter just held the camera upside down or not w/ his picture, but when you say left and right do you mean right=Low and left=High? Because his is just the opposite in the picture being upside down.

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Wed. Oct. 26, 2011 2:03 am

I don't think that Valter held his camera upside down. AHS actually installs the L4081B upside down on the S130 Coal Gun (or at least it is installed that way on mine, and apparently Valter's also). Therefore what I have been referring to all along as the right side of the unit would be the left side if it was installed right side up, and visa versa.

Despite my L4081B being stencilled "Operating Limit" on the outside cover, once the cover is removed AHS has it magic marker labeled inside as "Dump Zone" on the left half (the right side if it was not upside down), and the right half (left if it was not installed upside down) is magic marker labeled "Hi Limit".

ValterBorges · Post by **ValterBorges** » Wed. Oct. 26, 2011 7:51 pm

Yes the unit comes upside down? Why?
The picture is straight up.
You should be able to read where it says hi / low in the picture.

Valter, yours looks like Dual A'stat Low is for Circ. Pumps low cut out and High is for your Dump Zone. L4006 would be for your Operating Limit Limit

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67213576@N05/6255428487/
so in this picture the one that says lo is set to 200 and the one that says hi to 145.

At first when I saw this setup and started reading the posts about hi/low settings I adjusted and I set the lo to 160 and the hi to 180 and my dump zone was kicking on all the time.

Do you think it's wired backwards, or is it an alternate wiring scheme? and does it matter from an operating perspective or just a from a labeling perspective.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67213576@N05/6255966240/
and this one is set to 200.

Is the difference between operating limit and dump zone that one stops the blower and the other actives the dump zone to release heat and prevent overheating?

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Wed. Oct. 26, 2011 8:18 pm

I spoke with Shawn at AHS again today, and I have mine set up correctly. The L4006A is the "operating limit" control aquastat. My L4006A is set at 180 degrees, and it reliably starts the blower motor running at 170 degrees and then turns it off again when the boiler reaches 180 degrees. This aquastat has a built in and non-adjustable 10 degree differential.

The L4081B is two fully independent aquastats in one box. It is intended for dump zone control on one side and high limit control (as a safety and back-up in the event that the L4006A ever fails to shut off the blower motor at the intended 180 degrees) on the other side. I have both sides of my L4081B set to 200 degrees. The high limit side shuts my blower motor off at 200 degrees only in the event that the L4006A does not do its job and shut the blower off at 180 degrees, and the dump zone side opens my dump zone loops zone valve and starts my circulator faithfully whenever the boiler idles up (slowly overshoots after blower cut off at 180 degrees) to a temperature of 200 degrees. It knocks the boiler temp down to 185 degrees and then it turns off the circulator and closes the dump zone loops zone valve.

I also have an L6006A unit which turns off my circulator in the event that the boilers temperature falls to 145 degrees, and then it restarts my circulator when the boiler has recovered to 155 degrees. The differential on my L6006A is user selectable from 5 degrees to 25 degrees. I have it set at 10 degrees of differential.

ValterBorges · Post by **ValterBorges** » Wed. Oct. 26, 2011 8:27 pm

Ok, so I just ran a little test to see what's what.

So the boiler temp read 165 and the front SV was 167.

1.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67213576@N05/6255428487/
This control (L4081B) panel actually has a sticker which reads "operate limit"
I adjusted the hi (right) in this picture to 150 which turned the blower on. The water temp got up to 190 and the blower shut off.
I still haven't figured out why it doesn't tie directly to boiler or sv temp but thats another matter. Is it -10 boiler temp or -10 sv temp?

2.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67213576@N05/6255966240/
Once the blower was on I adjusted the setting in this control (L4006A) in the above picture to 150 and the blower turned off, turning it back to 190 the blower came back on. This control actually read in a sticker "High Limit" and it seems to be that meaning it turns the blower off when the temp of boiler water reaches 190 (or whatever you set it to). I have now left it at 190. Should I make it 180? or 170? to allow for creeping temperature?

3. Back on this control (L4081B) http://www.flickr.com/photos/67213576@N05/6255428487/
I adjusted the low to 150 and back up to 200 and confirmed that it does not turn on /off the blower but instead it activates the taco relay switch which is hooked up to one of my zones, thus dump zone. Is 200 on this ok or 210 better? I figured most of the time that room is not being used much so dumping earlier is better gives it more time to dump before overheat? or is this logic flawed because it will dump any time there is creep past the 190 on the high limit?

I also have L4006A at each of the 3 lenox air handlers that turn off the air blowing to prevent it from blowing cold air those are set to 140F.

Not sure about the circulator pumps. I've been looking into replacing my 3 - 007's with the Taco Delta T Variable speed and adding zone valves.

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Thu. Oct. 27, 2011 12:01 am

ValterBorges wrote:Yes the unit comes upside down? Why?
The picture is straight up.
You should be able to read where it says hi / low in the picture.

Valter, yes I could see yours...but not lsayer's. He was referencing his right and left and I didn't know if I should look at the pdf I was reading up-side down or what? They are referred to in Honeywell's pdf as hi and low, not right and left.