Harman Mark III Smell

Hey Everybody,

I guess you could call me a Coal Rat, been lurking for about a year here and have gained some great insight, a lot of great people!

This is what I have:
Harman Mark III
40 Y/O Full two flue (one oil burner) masonary fireplace chimney
28' of 6" Flex King Pro with cleanout tee in the fireplace firebox and hinged Deluxe chimney cap all connections with 3 tek screws.
Blaschak Pea Coal
Vogalzang BD-06 Barometric Damper
Dwyer Mark III 25 Manometer plumbed for constant read
AC/DC Smokes with Co detectors

Here is my problem:

I have run the stove about 3 full days in early October when we recieved a few 30 degree nights and before that a few all day saturday/sundays on/off to try and learn the settings; all before installing the Barometric Damper. Seemed to burn well, had a few low fires burn out, etc but no major problems that I couldn't figure out

I installed the barometric damper two weeks ago and waited for cooler weather, in the mean time I installed the Dwyer manometer with a 90 compression fitting below the BD, 1/4" copper tubing and silicone tubing to the manometer. I fired it yesterday, full firebox of pea, adjusted the BD to allow about .06 in/H2O. I thought it was supposed to be cooler last night but it only dropped to about 50...

This morning had a good fire still burning, firebox was about 400f and the stack was under 200f, Mano still at about .06 but there was a smell in the house, not sulfer, not smokey, not sure chemical or oil smell maybe. Checked to make sure all my smoke/CO detectors had a green light (they did), I placed a spare DC CO detector with LCD 5' from the stove and zero reading. I will use my Fire Department multigas meter tonight just to verify. I am hoping that it could possibly be the paint on the new barometric damper but not sure...

I guess I'm just looking for comments or some confirmation of what I've done and setup...

Thanks!

Matt

Edited to add: Welcome to the forum!! Your temps of 400* /200* sound good, great work!

A couple thoughts on what it could be...

You could be right about the smell burning off the new BD

Are all seams sealed on the flue pipe...may be enough to allow a whiff of a smell, but not register on the CO detector

If you have a horizontal section of flue pipe going into the chimney, check it for stink bugs, you may be slow cooking them! (this one is from experience!)

distribution fan on the stove giving off the smell from overheating due to last years dirt / dust build up

Something to try....cap off the BD with some foil to see if it does anything related to the smell

can you load a picture of the flue pipe / BD install?

Is this a new stove? Is the stovepipe new? Could just be the paint getting "seasoned".

Sounds like your right on top of the install. I doubt it's any smell for the baro burning off since they just don't hot enough to do that IMO.
My guess is that because of the high relative temps, you've got a low draft and your getting a little back leakage. Not enough for the CO detector to go off but enough to smell the coal. When we had those 3 days of cold temps back a couple of weeks ago and then it warmed up to 75 on the next saturday, I had the same thing when I came back from a serveral hour trip. Smelled it as soon as I came into the house. The Stove was on it's way out and I had opened the primary to about half to finish off the load. When I came back, it was breezy and hot and I think I had gotten some blowbacks or just weak draw.

Yeah sounds like something burning off that was new - stove, pipe, baro - anything with paint.

This is my first year with coal, so needless to say I installed new stove pipe when I installed My mark III. About 12 hrs into my first burn house had an odor. Almost a hot appliance or some type of electrical arcing odor. Had the wise one (grandpop) come over and we looked all around until he noticed the stove going. Then I got the jesus christ if you would have said the fire was goin we would be drinkin coffee by now. Hell I didnt know new pipe made an odor on first burn. But I do now. BTW just bought the baro today, should be interesting.

Thanks for all the replies! Making me a little nervous...

SteveZee wrote:Sounds like your right on top of the install. I doubt it's any smell for the baro burning off since they just don't hot enough to do that IMO.
My guess is that because of the high relative temps, you've got a low draft and your getting a little back leakage. Not enough for the CO detector to go off but enough to smell the coal. When we had those 3 days of cold temps back a couple of weeks ago and then it warmed up to 75 on the next saturday, I had the same thing when I came back from a serveral hour trip. Smelled it as soon as I came into the house. The Stove was on it's way out and I had opened the primary to about half to finish off the load. When I came back, it was breezy and hot and I think I had gotten some blowbacks or just weak draw.

This might be what it is. I don't see anything that might cause any other leaks... But that brings up another question, how would you check for leaks? Can't use soap bubbles like gas, etc... I held a BBQ lighter up to the seams while running about 450f to see if I could see it get drawn in or blown away but didn't see anything.

The stove and liner are new since about July but I think my first burns plus a good 3 day run cured the paint and burned off any of the oil on the liner, that I could smell distinctly, I don't think this is the same smell.

titleist1 wrote:Edited to add: Welcome to the forum!! Your temps of 400* /200* sound good, great work!
A couple thoughts on what it could be...
You could be right about the smell burning off the new BD
Are all seams sealed on the flue pipe...may be enough to allow a whiff of a smell, but not register on the CO detector
If you have a horizontal section of flue pipe going into the chimney, check it for stink bugs, you may be slow cooking them! (this one is from experience!)
distribution fan on the stove giving off the smell from overheating due to last years dirt / dust build up
Something to try....cap off the BD with some foil to see if it does anything related to the smell
can you load a picture of the flue pipe / BD install?

What is used to seal the seams?
No stinkbugs
I will try to get pics up in the next couple of days.

Another question is to clear up the BD/Manometer setting...
the Harman Manual says that...

"The minimum required draft is .06 WC" then it goes on to say "a barometric damper may be used" ... "Then check it below the barometric damper and make your damper adjustment to where it opens to prevent the draft from going higher than the .06 WC"

Minimum draft of the chimney .06 but the BD supposed to limit it from going over .06...

Yes the BD limits the draft to wherever you position the door weight. From your description, it sounded like you had the manometer fitting positioned between the stove and the BD as it should be. The draft should be .06 on the scale when there is little to no wind and the BD is closed. You would fiddle with the weight on the BD so that it is perfectly balanced at that point, that way if conditions change and more draft attempts to come through the coal bed, the BD swings open and lets the additional draft go through it rather than the coal bed. The manometer reading should stay steady at .06.

High temp RTV can be used for seam sealer or there is Rutland stove and gasket cement that comes in a small tube. I use the Rutland stuff, it is not as permanent as the other and since I am taking apart the flue pipe each spring, it is dried out and breaks away easily by that time.

Pics....we want pics!!!

I used a foil tape on my boiler's stovepipe. Works great for me, but I don't know if the tape could handle the higher stack temperature of a hand-fired stove.

Firemanz84,
Sorry, I'm not trying to make you nervous about anything I was just stating that I had a similar problem when the weather got unexpectedly warm while the stove was still going. I think the rule of thumb is 50 degrees or lower outside is a safe bet that you'll continue to have sufficient draft to burn without any problems. If it were me I'd forget about it for the moment and as soon as the weather is consistently below the 50F mark, go for it and then see if you still have the problem. It's my bet you won't.

Could still be the paint...
If you had the stove body to 350* then go to 450* the next day...
It will smell again...
Then you hit 550* a week later you will get some more smell...
It will lessen each time...
A few burns at 550* and you are done...

You might be back drafting the oil burner...

CapeCoaler wrote:You might be back drafting the oil burner...

That was another thing I was thinking about...I was thinking about putting a square sheetmetal tube over the oil burner flue to raise it up over the top of the coal flue chimney cap...

SteveZee wrote:Firemanz84,
Sorry, I'm not trying to make you nervous about anything I was just stating that I had a similar problem when the weather got unexpectedly warm while the stove was still going. I think the rule of thumb is 50 degrees or lower outside is a safe bet that you'll continue to have sufficient draft to burn without any problems. If it were me I'd forget about it for the moment and as soon as the weather is consistently below the 50F mark, go for it and then see if you still have the problem. It's my bet you won't.

You weren't making me nervous Just being new to heating with coal and having a small fire breathing volcano in my basement makes me nervous!

I have been trying to get ahead of the learning curve before the real New England weather sets in and that may be detrimental in it self, since the conditions are quite right yet...

I appreciate the feedback!

Just remember, they call it a curve, not a leap. Take your time & be patient. You'll get it down pat in no time. By the way, cold weather is a real learning motivator--I know--