Advice please on painting

Advice please on painting

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:00 pm

It's time again to paint the parts of my house that I have not sided yet. I first painted these areas about 9 years ago. The paint is peeling, flaking etc. The north walls are pretty good, the south and west get lots of sun and are the worst.

Ok, I've scraped, powerwashed, and scraped again, I usually don't believe in primer for wood, but am I wrong in this?? the wood siding is both pine and redwood, 4" lap siding, about 80% bare wood, but the north facing walls are more like 95% paint.

I prefer oil based paint, believing it to be better than Latex. I have 4 gallons of oil based paint already,

I heard from one veteran painter to just thin the regular oil paint and use it as primer, that it will soak in better than the paint alone, and is the same as buying primer... is this true??

So any advise is appreciated, , prime or not, use latex not oil, give up and side it. Or anything else??

I started this when the weather was still in the mid 60's, but now mid 50's is about all I can hope for, is this too cold? Should I wait till next year??

Thanks everyone

Greg L

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LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: JerseyCoal On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:45 pm

Vinyl siding on the whole place and forget about it forever! Short of that, I have alway had good results with an oil based primer/sealer as a first coat. After that, I've used either oil or latex finish coat. Nevertheless, I am serious about the vinyl siding; it will cost you up front but you'll never have to think about it after that.
John
JerseyCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Franco Belge model 10.1475

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:59 pm

Hi John, I agree, the rest of the house is vinyl sided, victorian style, very nice, But I just can't bring myself to pay out the cash right now.

thanks for the advice on the primer. I may cough up the money for that this time.

greg
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland


PostBy: gaw On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:30 pm

Cabot makes some pretty heavily pigmented stains. I never used them but have heard good reports on Cabot stains. Using stain over what was once painted may not work unless a full stripping is done and even then I'm not sure how it would work. Maybe someone else has experience, just something else to consider.
gaw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
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PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:33 pm

Someone here always seems to post a topic that I have an opinion on. Once again it has happened. :twisted:

I am very opinionated regarding vinyl siding and older houses. I don't care for it! I feel that older construction has more character, I guess more of that "hand crafted" look. I cringe when I see an older home being clad with vinyl siding, hiding all the interesting wood trim and details.

That said...

When my house was renovated to it's present form in the later 1930's cedar shakes were the choice for the siding, stained of course. Well, we all know what that looks like after about 50 years of neglect. So in the 1970's the house was covered in aluminum siding, the older kind with no attempt at imitating wood texture at all. I almost didn't buy the place because of it.

When I enlarged the kitchen addition I went with cedar clapboards, this past summer I stripped a small part of the house to the sheathing and installed clapboards as well. I know I will never be able to do the whole house myself, hopefully at some point I will be able to afford to have the work done by (hard to type this) a.....contractor.

That said...

Make sure all the peeling paint is sanded off. The wood has to be really clean. It needs to be sanded, not just scraped. Bare wood is the best. If you paint over old paint with adhesion problems, the old paint will continue to peel off with your new topcoat stuck to it. The surface needs to absolutely dry. I prefer oil-based (alkyd) primers, but there are some high quality water-based primers that work well. A nice coat of primer and then 2 to 3 coats of paint and you're all set.

Pay the extra $$$ for premium paint, I prefer Benjamin Moore. After trying the cheaper brands I basically got what I paid for. B. Moore is like cream, nice and thick, it holds on the brush well. Cheap paint is watery.

Well, I stuck my 2 cents in!

By the way, my dad was a chemist at Vita-Var Paint Corp. in Newark, NJ, so I kinda grew up around the stuff. I still have cans of paint as old as around 1970 that are still good, a few cans of Vita-Lux Marine Spar Varnish that looks like it was made yesterday, Even a few cans of lead-based exterior house paint (TOXIC WASTE ALERT!!!).
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A wet paint sign and a still good can of spar varnish.
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Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: jpen1 On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:55 pm

Greg ,


I have done my fair share of painting over the years and have worked with my late uncle who was a pro painter for 40 plus years. He always used a primer when painting bare wood siding. He always used Sherwin williams primer and paint. But with the new VOC regulations on paint brought on by the tree huggers I have to tell you the only good brand of oil base paint around any more at least in my area is Martin Seymore. I still a have a few friends that paint professionally and they use Kilz professional primer and they like Benjamin Moore's Moreguard soft gloss latex. I did paint my parents aluminum sided house with the Ben Moore this summer and it works the best of any latex or oil based I have used in a long time. It is probably to cold to paint especially with latex. The optimum paiting temps are 60's/70's. Colder than that the paint doesn't harden right hotter It hardens to fast and you get streaks especially if you are painting in the sun with out using an inhibitor.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
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PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:04 pm

Agreed, Sherwin Williams is very good, Kilz primer is excellent, just watch out for the fumes. It smells like it's Xylol, if you are using it on a still day a respirator is a good idea.

I used Moreguard soft gloss latex on the clapboards-excellent.

Yes, it is probably too cold for good painting now.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: jpen1 On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:15 pm

I don't think sherwin willimas is as good as it used to be. I am with you about that Ben Moore morre guard it really covers well and the brush marks flatten out well. One other thin use a quality brush that make a huge difference in both the amount of time spent and with the finished product. I mostly Purdy glide XL series but I have a few worchester proline blue lable that are really good as well.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:23 pm

High quality brushes are a must. The cheap made in China ones just don't cut it. A pro painter I met on a job last year told me to wrap the brushes in newspaper after cleaning them. It helps keep the shape of the brush. I tried it and it works very well.

If I use oil-based paint after washing the brushes out in mineral spirits I wash them with soap and hot water. The residue left after cleaning in solvent only leaves the brush stiff and builds up just where the brush meets the handle.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:43 pm

Thanks guys all good advice. My old rag-tag place is pretty rough. I won't be going whole hog and sand all the paint off. I'm doing more prep this time than I did the last time nine years ago.

I used TSC barn and fence paint then, over the washed and scraped surfaces. It looked pretty good for about seven years. The last two years it has started to check and peel.

As for vinyl, it depends on the job. My house is a vast improvement with vinyl over the crap 8" aluminum and featureless windows. The Hacks that installed the aluminum siding and replacement windows just cut the old window treatments off, and covered it all with aluminum. The old siding is so bad as to be unusable. It must have gone unpainted for a decade or two.

You can see from the photos that the house looks much better and more authentic for it's age than it did before the vinyl siding.

I'm hoping for a few more warm days, or I'll have to wait till spring to paint the garage and apartment. I think if I paint the sides when the sun is on them, they should dry ok even if it is only 55* or so. In direct sunlight I would hope the surface is a few degrees warmer.

thanks for the advice. Hopefully I'll get it painted sooner than later.

gregl
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The start of a roof removal
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New roof on 1849 section, new siding and trim. Other than the porch, no painting on what you see.
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Halfway between the reroof before the rest of the siding.
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LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: Greyhound On: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:51 pm

A couple of other thoughts.

Latex paint cures from the inside out. Essentially, it is like putting a raincoat on the house, after the "cure" it becomes plastic like. My concern is that even if you have warm days, the exterior may seem "dry" but the colder nights may inhibit the curing process.

Of course, if you go with oil, then you may be okay.

Be sure surface is dry. Otherwise, moisture that has to escape on a warm day will cause bubbles in paint.
Greyhound
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 105
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Other Heating: Lenox Oil HA, Heat Pump

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:31 am

We are taking ours right down the to the wood, light sand and good Kilz Primer and Behr Premium plus paint, we will see what happens....It gonna be a lot of work, but worth it....not looking forward to all the OTHER details....around the porch...It's been white for 50 years with 6-8 layers on it, just peeling. We are going to brighten up the neighborhood. :)

I have the big ladders, scaffold, etc...for starting next spring.....
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WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
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PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:07 am

WNY,

Nice!

Are you going to paint the porch ceiling light blue?
Many older houses with open porches have that color on the ceiling. I guess it's supposed to compare to the sky.

Just make sure you wear a mask when sanding off the old paint, some of it is probably lead based.

I really like the accent colors, worth the extra time and effort.

John
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:33 am

Thanks!
You got it!! :) Ceiling will a light blue even with a few gold stars too! The wife knew that too!

Yes, masks are worn most of the time when stripping/sanding, etc....
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:40 am

Dave, [WNY], your house is worth the added effort to do all the work. It is a beautiful Victorian. My place is a hodge-podge of addtions, sheds-that-became-additons, no-foundation sections etc. UGGH!! But it suffices to live in.

I love my land, but the house is just to 'get by' with. It will never be a nice authentic place like yours.

I hope the oil based paint will soak in and get a good 'bite' in the wood with the slower, colder cure. I don't like latex, it doesn't seem to soak in as well.

When I get a few more nickles saved up, maybe I'll side the rest of the painted areas. Right now paint is easier.

Thanks, Greg
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland