foam insulation test FAIL

foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: rwwsr On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:17 pm

I need to make a 100' run of 1" pex al pex with a short underground (4') section between buildings. So I figured I could simply inject one or two cans of foam insulation inside the 4" drain pipe containing the 4 lines of 1" pap and have water proof and insulation in one easy step.
The test was a 3' length of drain pipe containing 4 runs of pap and one can of foam in the center. All was looking good and after 24 hrs I cut the pipe to see my handy work.
FAIL - apparently the foam needs air contact to cure properly it was still wet and had deflated inside the pipe.
I guess I will have to make an insulated chase for this to work.
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ready to inject
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looking good
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FAIL
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rwwsr
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: ahs s260 3
Coal Size/Type: pea

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:29 pm

No matter what I run underground waterwise, I go below the frost line---usually 3'--even if I'd have to put some angled fittings to it. OR--as you said, insulated chase will do it. Outstanding effort though. ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:40 pm

I too tried to make something with spray foam once and had the same results as you did. Although it never occurred to me that it needs air to solidify.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator


Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: syncmaster On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:35 pm

i found a interesting video for insulated underground pex:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnm6PftkjVs

i bit of over kill but inexpensive .
syncmaster
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: harmanVF3000 Coal/oil option
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: VF3000
Stove/Furnace Model: Harman VF3000

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:43 pm

This is the stuff I like....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmvgDdVO6m0&
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:49 pm

I think you can buy/rent the "A" and "B" tank units at Lowes. They may cure a little more quickly and give better results.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:57 pm

jpete wrote:I think you can buy/rent the "A" and "B" tank units at Lowes. They may cure a little more quickly and give better results.

Yep, or you could get this kit....
http://www.sprayfoamdirect.com/video/FIG602.php
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:49 pm

rwwsr wrote:apparently the foam needs air contact to cure properly it was still wet and had deflated inside the pipe.


I'm guessing a lack of anywhere to expand, once the ends are cured a little it can't expand into the rest of the pipe because of pressure. I'd see if I could long adapter/hose so you could pull it out length of pipe while you're spraying. Drill more holes in the outer pipe for expansion.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: Freddy On: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:23 pm

I used "donkey dink" pre-formed pipe insulation. It comes 4 feet long & comes in many sizes. Lowes or HD has it. Slide it on, job done. It keep the pipes apart as well as insulates them. I did that on four pipes, then wrapped the four in that silver/ aluminum foil bubble wrap, then put it all inside a 6" schedule 20 pipe & buried it 5 feet down. Might be hard to see, but here's a pic.
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Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: rwwsr On: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:48 am

Thanks all for your input. On to plan B.

I do not think any of the foam insulation products will properly cure inside the 4" drain pipe. It would have been quick and easy but I would never know for sure.

So, being as I only need 4' of the 100' run insulated I am leaning toward transition to 6" drain pipe then use Freddy's method for insulation, bury between buildings (18" deep) and then transition back to uninsulated 4" pipe for balance of run.

The frost line here in Delaware is only 24" and the space between building rarely freezes. there are water lines 12" deep that have never froze (yet).
rwwsr
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: ahs s260 3
Coal Size/Type: pea

Re: foam insulation test FAIL

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:25 am

I used 8" PVC pipe for my underground conduit. Normally sold for well casing; PVC schedule 80. I have one 90 degree elbow in my run. I sliced the elbow in two, clam shell style on the table saw. Installed the bottom half to the pipes with PVC cement, installed my pipes and electrical conduits and then installed the top half of the conduit using RTV silicone. It's worked well for me. The schedule 80 is quite strong and unlikely to fail from any weight placed on it. I used HVAC closed cell pipe insulation to insulate my boiler water pipes.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea