In-ground oil tank

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:22 pm

Fill it in---DO NOT CALL DEP--DEC up here--bunch of A-holes at any rate. If you did, they would check surrounding ground for any spillage & be it there or not, they usually find something--you would then have to have a certified contractor come in & remove & dispose of same.--Well, we're into the thousands about now $$$$$--cut off filler tube, put some sand in it if you want, & bur ;) y the old dog.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
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Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:45 pm

To fill it right, you need to cut the top off the tank. A 275 gallon tank should be easy to pull, that's what I would do. By law, the tank must be cut up for the scrapper to receive it, they can't take a tank in tank form. Cut the ends off and slice it in half.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:53 pm

offcoursey wrote:I was afraid if I filled it in, then decided to move and had to disclose the information about an in-ground tank on the property. I may be required to remove a tank that is filled with sand.

That is the problem...
You never know what will happen in the future...
The laws might change and now all that sand is HAZMAT...
Make the tank a memory...
Have a few buddies over and pull it out...
Then clean it out...
Burn the crap from inside the tank after you carefully split the tank open...
and sell the metalfor scrap...
A sand filled tank still will leak the crap that is left inside the tank...
Eventually...
Take care of the tank now...
So it does not become a problem in the future...

I helped an elderly neighbor out when I noticed a strange odor in the house...
I knew what it was and went to the basement to see just how bad it was...
The 275 gal tank was laying flat on the sandy crawl space in the old part of the house...
Just like it was when it was installed 35 years ago...
Tank was getting ready to blow and already had seepage...
Pulled two 5 gallon buckets of sand that was oil soaked from the front of the tank...
Called the oil company that did tank removal and had been the sole oil delivery company for 35 years...
$1850 paid in advance and they were there the next day...
Pulled the tank...
There was seepage on the bottom too but less than a 5 Gallon bucket...
The fire marshal signed off after a quick inspection and all was good...
That neighbor died two years later...
The estate would have been stuck with a huge bill had the tank not been taken care of...
Two years earlier...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove


Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:31 pm

I guess it can come back to haunt you. Maybe it's better to leave it and then when you are ready to put the house up for sale have it pressure tested and if there are no leaks then you are good to go. The new owners may want to use oil anyway. A bank may frown on a house that only uses coal if that is your situation. The other option is to pay the 1,200-1,500 now to remove it and be done with it. Just keep in mind that if the guy removing it finds a leak and reports you to the EPA it could end up costing you 10's of thousands. I face the same situation. I'm going to roll the dice and leave it. When I go to put in on the market I will get a certified tech to do a pressure test. If there is a leak at that time I will remove it. If there isn't then I will show the potential buyer a certification that the tank doesn't leak and go from there.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:39 pm

Wow... Im with Freetown. :shifty:
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Nut/Anthracite

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: MURDOC1 On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:40 pm

Reading all that has been said so far and now knowing the size of the tank is ONLY 275 Gal. I would pull the tank and be done with it... Invite some buddies over and a case of beer or two later its all done, not to mention the money recovered in scrap should pay for the beer!!!
MURDOC1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska/Franco Belge/Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: S.S. 2/ 144.08.02/ Mag Stoker

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:45 pm

Yes, I had to back up on that--hell, 275 gall---pull it out--put a chain to it somehow, hitch one of the horses & yank the old dog out ;) or something similar toothy --I was thinkin like 1000 gallons or there abouts--sorry I need to read better.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: MURDOC1 On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:50 pm

freetown fred wrote:Yes, I had to back up on that--hell, 275 gall---pull it out--put a chain to it somehow, hitch one of the horses & yank the old dog out ;) or something similar toothy --I was thinkin like 1000 gallons or there abouts--sorry I need to read better.



Fred, I was thinking the same, pictured a 500-1000 gallon tank, once the actual small size of 275 came about I'm thinkin' the same, just yank that sucker out and call it a day... No more tank= no more worries!!!
MURDOC1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska/Franco Belge/Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: S.S. 2/ 144.08.02/ Mag Stoker

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:57 pm

The only issue I could see is that you will have to disclose that there was once an underground tank and the bank may ask for a permit for proper removal. This could lead to a soil test and if some oil spilled out when it was removed there could be headaches. I think my scenario may be far fetched but possible. Let us know what you do. The proper way is to get a permit for removal and then you will really have no worries. Unless there is a leak and then.....
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:25 pm

You probably can't pump enough oil out of it to be sure it won't become a hazard. The time to pull it is before it decays.Once it does, you are liable.

I did a little sniffing around and it looks like you may be able to get the state to pick up the tab. https://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/sso/SSOLogin.aspx
Don't forget to pad the bill, the IRS may want a piece of the action. ;)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:07 am

That one is just for capping off a tank...
1) Pumping out and disposal of regulated product from the tank 2) cleaning the insides of the tank and 3) if the tank will be put into temporary closure, grouting the fill pipe. This pertains to underground storage tanks regulated pursuant to Act 32 of 1989 (as amended) which have not been upgraded to comply with technical requirements of federal and state regulations."

And that seems related to 'regulated tanks' such as gas stations and tank farms...
Here is another link for home heating oil tanks...
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/se ... 716&mode=2
The server is a bit wonky, you may get an error...
The Department of Environmental Protection announces the reimbursement program for tank owners who have underground storage tanks with a capacity of 3,000 gallons or less used for storing heating oil for consumption on the premises where stored, to assist with costs of taking corrective action in response to a release. The release must have occurred on or after Jan. 30, 1998.

Typical eligible corrective action costs include excavating, emptying, cleaning, removing, transporting and disposing of a leaking storage tank; excavating contaminated soil; transporting and disposing of wastes; and restoring disturbed or contaminated areas by backfilling, grading and revegetating. Costs associated with the removal of non-leaking storage tanks and releases from storage tanks located in underground areas such as basements or cellars are not eligible for reimbursement.

The reimbursement is limited to the actual costs of corrective action or $4,000, whichever is less. However, a $1,000 deductible, must be paid first by the tank owner. The reimbursement and deductible apply on a per tank basis. All reimbursements are funded through the Underground Storage Tank Indemnification Fund and up to $500,000 per year may be available. Legislation signed by the Governor on June 30, 2007 extends the funding provision for this program to June 30, 2012.


This is just for a spill...
$1000 deductible, $4000 max payout...

So it may just be a job for 'midnight movers'... ;)
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: offcoursey On: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:46 am

I was really leaning towards filling the tank with sand. I value the advise here and now I believe I will pull the tank out. Most likely I will just pull it out on my own(with help of course) and hope it all works out. I will be waiting until this spring though. I have a scrape guy that will cut it up so I can clean it, then he will take it away. I don't think anyone knows that the tank is there. It has not been used for 2 years. Thank you.
offcoursey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay
Stove/Furnace Model: Glacier bay

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:16 am

If at all possible, dig it up and fix the lawn......cleaning and filling is the other option, but if you don't want the real estate agents.....local officals.....then state guys coming to check......make it go away. If it is structural we fill them with flowable concrete (400 psi and dig-able) after being cleaned and certified. You sure don't want Clean Harbors showing up with a fleet of rigs when someone asks: Do you have ANY underground tanks on site? In the country......CYA no matter how you proceed. :idea:
whistlenut
 
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Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: Paulie On: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:38 am

I would pull the tank and dispose of it. I would leave local authorities out of it. If it had a permit when installed, you would have
already heard about it. Good Luck!
Paulie
 
Stove/Furnace Make: leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: In-ground oil tank

PostBy: crazy4coal On: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:54 am

When you do remove the tank, Uncover it with a machine or by hand, Cut a hole in the top big enought to get inside, scoop, scrape and wipe the inside, Then remove the tank from the ground. DO NOT remove the tank from the ground before cleaning it! There could be a hole in it that has not leaked. You could cause a spill if there is still product in the tank. Here in NJ ins co don't like to sell homeowners ins on homes with tanks undergound over 10 yrs old. You could sell your home and be all set with a closeing date and have it all go south because the buyer can't get homeowners ins because the tank is in the ground. I know of someone that found a gasoline tank buried that had been out of service for more than 20 yrs. It was the builders house and he had the tank to fuel his trucks, he sold the house and retired. The state went looking for him but he had died so, they backtracked the homeowners ins co that covered the house when he owned it and made them pay for removel and cleanup. If he had still been alive HE would have had to pay for it all. Do it once and sleep good after.
crazy4coal
 
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