Carbon Monoxide/ Draft

titleist1 wrote:

SteveZee wrote:Can't recall the one most of the guys use but it's pretty inexpensive. I've never used one since I'm using manual pipe dampers on both stoves.

Hey Steve, just curious about not using one since you use a manual damper....wouldn't you want to know your draft number even though you have a manual vs. baro?

I know I am able to tell if fly ash is building up in the flue pipe and will soon need a cleaning by the draft number on the manometer. It is not what I exclusively go by, but it is an early indicator for me.

OK, so can somebody tell me a little more about fly ash build up? How do I know if I have it or not? If I do, how am I to clean out the SS liner? Sorry for all the questions, but this is my first year and I really want to avoid any serious problems that will mess up my stove. I don't have a manometer and my Baro is the cheap kind with no numbers.

Thanks all.

If you have a horizontal run of flue pipe, fly ash will lay there and build up over time blocking the exhaust and impacting your draft. In my set up I know the draft number with a newly cleaned flue pipe will run around .04 with the baro set up. If the draft number will only get to .03 or .02 with the baro closed, then I know to look for fly ash build up in the pipe or in my hand fed Harman on top of the baffle plate inside the firebox.

If there is no fly ash build up then I know I should look at the bottom of my SS chimney to make sure the cap that is usually on the bottom of the T outside the thimble is in place. It has fallen off (or I forgot to replace it after brushing the chimney) before and that also impacted the draft number from its normal value.

There is a great pic on here of someone that had their flue pipe about 75% blocked by fly ash which they found after looking for the reason for a poorer than normal draft. I'll try to find it and post the link here.

musikfan6 wrote:OK, so can somebody tell me a little more about fly ash build up? How do I know if I have it or not? If I do, how am I to clean out the SS liner? Sorry for all the questions, but this is my first year and I really want to avoid any serious problems that will mess up my stove. I don't have a manometer and my Baro is the cheap kind with no numbers.

Fly ash is far more of a problem with stokers than hand fired stoves. The reason is that stokers use forced combustion air instead of natural draft .

If you leave your top door ajar during shaking the draft pull through the coal bed will be much less with very little fly ash going into your flue. Just clean the stove once a year and you will be fine. For stoves with manual air intake it would be well to close the intake when shaking.

The fly ash will usually build up after time at the elbows and horizontal runs of your stovepipe. This is why periodically you should check to see how much accumulates and you will get an idea how often it should be cleaned out. I put a T with a cap on the horizontal run of my set up and every couple of weeks I take the cap off to check it. To do this I hold a mirror inside of the T opening and shine a flashlight to see if there is any build up. I check the back of the pipe then turn the mirror and check the front of the pipe. If there is any build up I let the stove cool way down and vacuum it out from the opening of the T. You may want to let the stove go out and cool off before cleaning it out. You may also want to clean out around the air port holes inside the stove to keep a good draft. You have to get used to your stove and set up. This way you will get an idea of how often it should be checked and how often it should be cleaned out.

franco b wrote:

musikfan6 wrote:OK, so can somebody tell me a little more about fly ash build up? How do I know if I have it or not? If I do, how am I to clean out the SS liner? Sorry for all the questions, but this is my first year and I really want to avoid any serious problems that will mess up my stove. I don't have a manometer and my Baro is the cheap kind with no numbers.

Fly ash is far more of a problem with stokers than hand fired stoves. The reason is that stokers use forced combustion air instead of natural draft .

If you leave your top door ajar during shaking the draft pull through the coal bed will be much less with very little fly ash going into your flue. Just clean the stove once a year and you will be fine. For stoves with manual air intake it would be well to close the intake when shaking.

Thanks for the info, bud. I appreciate it!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Had a couple of friends stop buy who are HVAC people to talk about my draft and heat flow. They also said to put a dry vent through the wall behind the stove. As far as the heat flow through the house they advised me to put a floor vent in upstairs. They think since there aren't any vents the air has no where to move up stairs and putting the vent in will allow the air to circulate.

Today I put the dry vent in and with the colder weather coming in tomorrow we will see if that helps. Hopefully it does so I can shut the window. In the next couple of weeks maybe I will get a chance to put the vent in the floor.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I really appreciate it.

Give some thought as to where you will put that vent. It is just as important to provide a way for the cold air to return to the stove as it is for the hot air to rise.

Thanks Franco b. I can't put it near the stove as I have a one story room with a cathedral ceiling at this end of house. I have heat getting into my kitchen as it is only 7 degrees cooler than where I have the stove, but in the living room at the other end of the house it is between 12-15 degrees colder. I can put it in the ceiling in the kitchen near the hallway leading into the family room. My only other choice is running a pipe through the crawl space attic way above the laundry room which leads to the outside wall of the upstairs. For that option I will have to spend extra money as I will have to make sure it is warm up there to prevent condensation in the pipe/attic. If option 1 doesn't help, then maybe next year work on option 2.

Even if option 1 gets me to 3 degrees warmer at that end of the house I would be happy. That way the oil wouldn't kick in.

If I understand correctly your stove is downstairs and you want to move heat to a room upstairs at the far end of the house. If that is right I would put a return vent in the floor of that far room. As the cold air sinks through the register to return to the stove it will draw heated air into that room from the other upstairs rooms.

Sort of. I just want a more consistent flow of heat. As it is now it is like getting slapped in face when you travel to different areas of the house. Family room 80, kitchen 72-74 living room 62-65, upstairs 62-65. You can definitely feel the difference. I am hoping that with a cold air return (even if it is in the kitchen ceiling from an upstairs bedroom) would help circulate the air in that part of the house to at least raise the temperature a few degrees. It is like the air is "stuck" in place and not moving.

JohnnyV wrote:Sort of. I just want a more consistent flow of heat. As it is now it is like getting slapped in face when you travel to different areas of the house. Family room 80, kitchen 72-74 living room 62-65, upstairs 62-65. You can definitely feel the difference. I am hoping that with a cold air return (even if it is in the kitchen ceiling from an upstairs bedroom) would help circulate the air in that part of the house to at least raise the temperature a few degrees. It is like the air is "stuck" in place and not moving.

And you'r right, hot air and colder air don't mix easily. Very often they form a wall like and stop the natural aif flow. Like said before here some registers could help. If you know where is the colder floor, make a regiter in it and if possible run some pipe/duct down at about 18" from the floor. You will send cold air to the basement. Then find the warmer floor, probably where the stove is under it. Make an other register somewhere on that warmer floor to send warm air up and then complete the air loop.
Some houses need air forced devices to help moving the air but it doesn't cost very much to try with the registers first and if some air handler is needed the registers will be needed anyways.
A good way to "SEE" the air path is to use scent sticks, the fume will show you the invisible air flow. Just remember to stop moving when wanting to see. I used a lot of them when wanting to cure the cold effect in the face you described. Now my 3 levels are the same temp, and no "cold face effect" even when going up in the stairs.

The kitchen and our bedroom downstairs have air returns in the floor. The previous owner took out the big coal furnace and put in oil but never got around to removing the returns. Maybe that return in the ceiling is all I will need! The cold air would go into the basement through the doorway and up the steps to where the stove is....

Thanks for the info.

I see this thread has been inactive for a little while but now is probably a good time to bring it back to the top.

Due to the warm weather last night, I tried to idle my furnace back to keep it comfortable in the house. I monitor the flue pipe temperature with my handy wireless BBQ themometer and it works fantastic. I have the low temp alarm set for 120 degrees. Last night my temp alarm sounded at 120 like it should and I shut it off thinking, its plenty warm in here - no need to spritz up the fire. So I shut if off and went back to sleep. I woke up at about 5:00 am looked at my monitor and saw the pipe temp was down to about 97 degrees so I thought I better give her a little air or I risk the fire dying out.

I got up and I could smell a VERY faint odor of coal exhaust so I hurried down to the basement where I could smell it even a little more I looked at the barometric damper and saw it was still and shut so I put my nose over it and sure enough, there was cool coal exhaust bleeding out of it So I opened the ash pan door, got the pipe up to 160 degrees and the baro was partly open pulling air in again. Took only a few minutes.

I have two of the NightHawk CO alarms, one on the first floor and another upstairs. Neither of them sounded, because I understand they are set to warn when a particuler PPM is endured for a particular amount of time. BUT they both had a reading, 35 downstairs and 31 upstairs - 30 is the LOWEST number (other than 0 when it detects nothing) they are allowed to read by law according to the research I just did. So I cracked a door open and a couple windows and the reading went back to zero almost immeadiately.

My solution:
I have the AD-1 draft inducer, its not installed yet but I'm thinking its a good idea to put it on now. I plan to install a snap switch to turn it on like around 110 degrees on the pipe before the draft can reverse.

Anyone else been having draft reversals on the warmer days?

basement installation with a short single wall exterior chimney is your culprit. Is the stack taller than the highest portion of the home? if not, the fact that it's single wall, exterior stack and a basement appliance installation will conspire against you and lead to low draft/downdraft problems on low fire/ moderate outside temps.

Berlin, thanks for the input!
Yes the pipe is single wall and also 26 feet high, betwwen 2 and 3 feet higher than my peak