Advice Concerning Anth/Hard Coal Needed

 
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firebug
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Post by firebug » Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 8:04 am

smithy wrote:Sorry to here about the regulations over there .our government is trying the same over regulation of our freedoms it sounds like torch and pitchfork time.
How about coke or koke as fuel it also burns smokeless
well, most regulations on clean fuels make sense to me (the population in central europe is incredibly dense, we´d be in serious trouble if everybody would start burning whatever he likes in order to heat his home), but the latest regulation concerning stoves makes it practically illegal for me to refurbish and use an old stove, unless I have it examined by a puplicly appointed expert (there go €300) who will - if everything is done correctly - put his seal on it and tell me to take it to the Technical Conrol Board for testing of efficiency and output of heat (there go another €1000), then the puplicly appointed chimney sweep for our borough (yes, that office exists) should most graciously give permission to hook the stove to the chimney. unless of course he thinks that antique stoves are nothing but scrap metal... so I´ll simply buy a refurbished antique stove and leave all the rest of the hassle to the trained professional (the fight with the bureaucracy is included in the price of the stove, and he will even deliver & hook it up for me.... that´s what I call all inclusive service!) :surrender:

 
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morso
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Post by morso » Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 2:10 pm

smithy wrote:Sorry to here about the regulations over there .our government is trying the same over regulation of our freedoms it sounds like torch and pitchfork time.
How about coke or koke as fuel it also burns smokeless
Ha Coke thats what I was thinking off, can you get that in the usa??

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 2:42 pm

firebug wrote:well, most regulations on clean fuels make sense to me (the population in central europe is incredibly dense, we´d be in serious trouble if everybody would start burning whatever he likes in order to heat his home), but the latest regulation concerning stoves makes it practically illegal for me to refurbish and use an old stove, unless I have it examined by a puplicly appointed expert (there go €300) who will - if everything is done correctly - put his seal on it and tell me to take it to the Technical Conrol Board for testing of efficiency and output of heat (there go another €1000), then the puplicly appointed chimney sweep for our borough (yes, that office exists) should most graciously give permission to hook the stove to the chimney. unless of course he thinks that antique stoves are nothing but scrap metal... so I´ll simply buy a refurbished antique stove and leave all the rest of the hassle to the trained professional (the fight with the bureaucracy is included in the price of the stove, and he will even deliver & hook it up for me.... that´s what I call all inclusive service!)
Seems like Germany is further down the path to ruin than this country.

It cost me $25 to have the local building inspector OK my installation.

Why not consider buying a new or new used stove that already has had the testing done?

The heat output of the stove you used as an example is 34,000 BTU on the high output and half that or 17,000 at the low. Although I don't doubt the efficiency numbers we really don't have the whole picture until we know how clean that burn was. What was the particulate number for the exhaust? I suspect they tried for the cleanest burn possible with the stove. That would explain why wood was not used for the over night burn which would have been very dirty.

Using anthracite the stove probably could put out more at the high end and less at the low end. Anthracite can be dampened down to a low output very well without smoke but the amount of carbon monoxide in the exhaust will go up sharply with a loss of efficiency. A carbon monoxide detector is a must with any stove for safe operation.

Congratulations on your English. I can imagine what it must have been like to learn a language with so many arbitrary rules and spelling that drives even native users crazy.

 
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firebug
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Post by firebug » Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 3:11 pm

thanks for the compliment on my English, but that was kind of easily earned - my Dad´s a Brit and my Grandpa on my Mother´s side was from Chicago .... ;)
getting a new stove will save me half the price for a refurbished antique but will leave me with a box shaped eye-sore... getting a second hand stove will in most cases cause the same trouble I´m already facing! The reason? The latest anti-air-pollution-act (the main reason for all the above mentioned trouble) dates 03/30/11.... stoves sold before that date do not carry the correct documents and do only keep their status as "exempt heating device" if the installation remains unchanged. so, technically speaking I´d have to move into the house with the already existing stove, in order not to loose the exempt status of the stove :bang: Invironmentalist Legislation.... what can an individual do about it?!?


 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 5:28 pm

If I ever acquire a castle on America's Rhine (The Hudson river) that is the type of stove I would like.

A nice German web site http://www.antik-ofen-galerie.de/

One with mica windows is also very pleasant.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 5:58 pm

OMG franco b, don't get nortcan wound up ;) They're some real handsome stoves :)

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 10:01 pm

freetown fred wrote:OMG franco b, don't get nortcan wound up ;) They're some real handsome stoves :)
I don't think so. He is so into not burning too much coal that he even got a tiny cook stove.

 
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firebug
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Post by firebug » Thu. Nov. 17, 2011 2:59 am

this is EXACTLY the place I´ll visit on my next excursion! :junmp: :junmp: :junmp:
he´s living down by the French border, roughly 2hrs. drive from here
been there a couple of years ago when I first had the idea of getting a stove... the owner has a lot of knowledge and is asking all the relevant questions like where is it to go, what kind of fuel will you burn, how is your insulation, do you want it for supplementary heat or as sole source of heat. he even designed his own questionnaire & will go through that with you as he´s taking you through his workshop... I ´ll be taking photos & can share, if you´re interested
Mark
Last edited by firebug on Thu. Nov. 17, 2011 3:52 am, edited 2 times in total.


 
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firebug
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Coal Size/Type: Lignite Briquettes, Anthracite
Other Heating: natural gas hydronic heating

Post by firebug » Thu. Nov. 17, 2011 3:31 am

franco b wrote:Although I don't doubt the efficiency numbers we really don't have the whole picture until we know how clean that burn was. What was the particulate number for the exhaust? I suspect they tried for the cleanest burn possible with the stove. That would explain why wood was not used for the over night burn which would have been very dirty.
federal legislation refers to: exhaust must not contain more than 140 milligram fine particualtes per m³ when using coal and not more than 40mg when using dry wood. thermal efficiency must be more than 74%. The efficiency of the burn itself (like how much fuel has been left unburned) is not relevant for the test. Some cities in southern Germany introduced limit values for CO emissions as well, but that´s not the case where I live
I´ll certainly get one of these detectors! Money-wise the entire thing only makes sense if I find a stove that consumes about the same amount of fuel as the Star Herald or the Crystal.... I´ll be fine if I can find one that stays lit for 18-24hrs on 6-10lbs of anthracite and puts out about 17000 BTUs during that time

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Thu. Nov. 17, 2011 2:28 pm

firebug wrote: I´ll be fine if I can find one that stays lit for 18-24hrs on 6-10lbs of anthracite and puts out about 17000 BTUs during that time
To figure consumption. If you start with a quality coal of 13000 BTU per pound and your stove is 90% efficient then 13000 times .90 equals 11,700 BTU delivered to the room for each pound of coal burned. So for that output for 24 hours you would burn 24 pounds of coal. You would also have about 3 pounds of ash to get rid of. To convert to KW each KW is 3,400 BTU

Obviously I have had to make assumptions about the coal and stove.

If you have or have used an electric space heater in the rooms you want to heat it could help to determine what you need since the heat output of the electric unit is known.

Pictures of the German antique stoves would have a lot of interest since we rarely see these. Pictures of fire pots and grates and heat exchange systems also.

That dealer in stoves seems very responsible and knowledgeable and it looks like he wants to make sure you are happy.

 
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Post by just peter » Tue. Nov. 22, 2011 6:14 pm

Hi for what its worth, I bought this summer 1 ton of anthracite nut 5 for € 350 here in Holland.
The coal was bagged and is Ibbenbüren anthracite.
I know it is an bargain, but it is delivered by mine stove supplier, when I look at the coal supliers, there are a few here in Holland, then the same ton cost about €600.-- a ton.

Peter.

 
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firebug
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Other Heating: natural gas hydronic heating

Post by firebug » Wed. Nov. 23, 2011 2:54 pm

just peter wrote:Hi for what its worth, I bought this summer 1 ton of anthracite nut 5 for € 350 here in Holland.
The coal was bagged and is Ibbenbüren anthracite.
I know it is an bargain, but it is delivered by mine stove supplier, when I look at the coal supliers, there are a few here in Holland, then the same ton cost about €600.-- a ton.

Peter.
A real bargain! I called several coal suppliers in my area and the average was €20 per 25kg ant nut 3 .... or anthracite briquettes, nut size at €16.80 per 25kg :mad:

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