Generator Recommendations

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:42 pm

steamup wrote:
Richard S. wrote:We're putting in a generator that will be connected to the panel box. I haven't gotten down to looking at exactly what I need but It will need to power the well pump, furnace, refrigerator, maybe one or two TV's, one computer, a few lights and a few smaller devices like routers/modems.

Probably go diesel. What I'm looking for is recommendations on brand and where to get it.


Watch out on hooking up flat screen TV's to a generator. They don't like dirty power that a generator typically puts out and can reduce the life of the TV. Consider an additional power regulator if you are hooking up sensitive electronic devices to the generator


Not if you have a REAL diesel generator, I use a 20kw and power the most sensitive and most expensive electronics there are with no problems at all. Thats why I recommend an 1800 rpm diesel, Perkins is good, Kholer with a Yanmar, or Onan with a Kubota.. all pretty good .
grumpy
 

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:54 pm

ValterBorges wrote: At 30kw you can go liquid cooled,


Should have mentioned the budget for this is 2 to 4K at the most. Realistically I could get by with enough for the refrigerator, freezer, furnace and well pump. Electric power outages here are more of just an inconvenience for short time, I can live without light or electronics if necessary. Even the loss of heat wouldn't be a huge problem.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:55 pm

grumpy wrote:
steamup wrote:
Richard S. wrote:We're putting in a generator that will be connected to the panel box. I haven't gotten down to looking at exactly what I need but It will need to power the well pump, furnace, refrigerator, maybe one or two TV's, one computer, a few lights and a few smaller devices like routers/modems.

Probably go diesel. What I'm looking for is recommendations on brand and where to get it.


Watch out on hooking up flat screen TV's to a generator. They don't like dirty power that a generator typically puts out and can reduce the life of the TV. Consider an additional power regulator if you are hooking up sensitive electronic devices to the generator


Not if you have a REAL diesel generator, I use a 20kw and power the most sensitive and most expensive electronics there are with no problems at all. Thats why I recommend an 1800 rpm diesel, Perkins is good, Kholer with a Yanmar, or Onan with a Kubota.. all pretty good .

That's the same experience I have with my 15KW diesel generator. No problems with any load. It's 4 cyl 1800 RPM water cooled, rated 15KW continuous, 18 KW intermittent. It Korean built, Daewoo Heavy Industries and built like a tank. Yes, I wish it had better fuel consumption and was not as noisy. But with the few times I really needed it, I just lived with the drawbacks and enjoyed the electricity.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea


Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:04 pm

Richard S. wrote:
ValterBorges wrote: At 30kw you can go liquid cooled,


Should have mentioned the budget for this is 2 to 4K at the most. Realistically I could get by with enough for the refrigerator, freezer, furnace and well pump. Electric power outages here are more of just an inconvenience for short time, I can live without light or electronics if necessary. Even the loss of heat wouldn't be a huge problem.


Don't go any larger than 15kw, even thats too much unless you want your well to kick on when the central air is running, like me, lol. Diesels like a load, if you cant use the power you will harm the diesel engine, they like a full load, running a 30kw and using 5kw is not cool, google wet stacking.., and build a load bank for proper maintenance..

Oh PS if your going to run the well I would say no less than 10kw, unless you have a really small pump motor... :o
grumpy
 

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:32 pm

You need to add up the usage you will need to decide what size to buy. Don't 10k when you only need 5K. Next decide which fuel you want. You say diesel but the 3600 rpm diesels are loud like the 3600 rpm gas. Do you want a stand by the starts when you loose power? Those are usually propane or natural gas. Generac has a 7K standby for under $1800 and comes with an auto transfer switch. Thats a great deal I think but it requires propane or natural gas. And remember the 20lb propane tanks for your grill are only about 4 gallons. Thats 4 hours at 1/gph consumption. If its for short term and you don't mind rolling the thing out and plugging it in, I would go with a portable gas.
cArNaGe
 

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:54 pm

Richard S. wrote:Should have mentioned the budget for this is 2 to 4K at the most. Realistically I could get by with enough for the refrigerator, freezer, furnace and well pump. Electric power outages here are more of just an inconvenience for short time, I can live without light or electronics if necessary. Even the loss of heat wouldn't be a huge problem.


So I would go with the standby or portable gas
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com ... p5524.html
Plenty of power for what you listed.

Or if you wanted to go portable.
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com ... p5508.html
This one is gas and you may need less wattage than this one but I put it up to compare to the standby.

Diesel gets expensive and if you don't lose power much don't spend $2000-$4000 when you can spend $1500-$2000.
cArNaGe
 

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:57 pm

cArNaGe wrote:You need to add up the usage you will need to decide what size to buy. Don't 10k when you only need 5K. Next decide which fuel you want. You say diesel but the 3600 rpm diesels are loud like the 3600 rpm gas. Do you want a stand by the starts when you loose power? Those are usually propane or natural gas. Generac has a 7K standby for under $1800 and comes with an auto transfer switch. Thats a great deal I think but it requires propane or natural gas. And remember the 20lb propane tanks for your grill are only about 4 gallons. Thats 4 hours at 1/gph consumption. If its for short term and you don't mind rolling the thing out and plugging it in, I would go with a portable gas.



Yes, but remember your well may only need 5 amps at 240 to run but could need 30 amps to start, remember the head room, plus everything else you may have on when the well kicks on. Any motor needs head room, the fridge, the AC, ect. I would not get a 3600 rpm diesel. Get something good from the get go and you will have no regrets..


Noise is a big deal, if I had a diesel in my barn it would run 24/7 until the power came back. I will not do that with a gas genset. It is not as safe and is not built for it. My 10 kw is already showing its wear and I bet I don't have more that 500 HRS on it. I good diesel is good for 10,000 Hrs..


PS, If your serious about real back up power do not buy consumer products. The NG gensets will not last and are not built for long term duty. Look at it this way, you can buy a John Deer at home depot to cut your grass, or you can buy a john deer or a kubota..
grumpy
 

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: mozz On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:46 pm

I'm going to put in my 2 cents worth and say get a portable gas generator about 7kw if you need that much. Get a transfer switch and pick out 10 circuits you would need and get it wired up. I keep my generator filled up, 5 gallons, mixed with Stabil, and run it once or twice in the summer to burn out some of the old gasoline. I have 2, 5 gallon jugs 93 octane always mixed with Stabil on-hand. Use it for premix also mixing 1 Gallon at a time. Between the push mowers, riding mower, chain saws, weed wacker, leaf blower, pressure washer, and snowblower, it doesn't get a chance to get stale. If it does sit, i dump it in the 4 cylinder Ford pickup with the old pinto 2.5 liter and burn it up. Only problem i see with diesel is big upfront cost for the small amount of usage it will get and you have to keep the batteries charged up somehow. If i got 10kw or so, i would go with propane with a 40 lb tank and have some kind of adaptor for use with the gas grill 20 lb style. You can buy those filled anywhere.
mozz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:55 pm

The onan I found on ebay, 12kw 4 cylinder air cooled diesel, with 630 hours for around $1500 on ebay. Onan has been making gen sets for many years, might be able to find army surplus, but some of them are 400 hertz, and they have army speck build, different gas tank . I needed a new fuel cap, and the company I found that had one wanted $122 (no longer available from cummins/onan) , I bought it direct from the manufacture for $10, onan is expensive when it comes to parts.
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AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:09 pm

mozz wrote:I'm going to put in my 2 cents worth and say get a portable gas generator about 7kw if you need that much. Get a transfer switch and pick out 10 circuits you would need and get it wired up. I keep my generator filled up, 5 gallons, mixed with Stabil, and run it once or twice in the summer to burn out some of the old gasoline. I have 2, 5 gallon jugs 93 octane always mixed with Stabil on-hand. Use it for premix also mixing 1 Gallon at a time. Between the push mowers, riding mower, chain saws, weed wacker, leaf blower, pressure washer, and snowblower, it doesn't get a chance to get stale. If it does sit, i dump it in the 4 cylinder Ford pickup with the old pinto 2.5 liter and burn it up. Only problem i see with diesel is big upfront cost for the small amount of usage it will get and you have to keep the batteries charged up somehow. If i got 10kw or so, i would go with propane with a 40 lb tank and have some kind of adaptor for use with the gas grill 20 lb style. You can buy those filled anywhere.



Mozz, I don't think a 7kw will do the trick for him, I have an average well pump and my 10kw gets hit pretty hard when it kicks on. If I have my central air running at only 5 amps the well is enough to take out the genset.

But you are right the cost of a diesel is far more and may not be worth it for some people. However I got my 10kw back in 96, I spent about $2300 I think. If I knew what I know now I would have spent twice that and got a diesel. The power goes out more and more these days and I think it will get worse as time go's on. Needing a genset for a few hours or even a day or two is one thing, needing it for a week or two is another. Whats nice about a diesel is you can start it and run it for 250 Hrs, then shut it down for an oil change and go another 250, and never stop, I do it all the time. Rich said he may have 4K to spend, you can get the Perkins 10kw for 5K shipping included, and the 15kw for 6K.


You know when I bought my Kubota I got a smaller one thinking that was all I needed or wanted, four years later I traded it for a 29 HP, in the long run it cost me 5K more. I say do it up and be done with it forever, or at least 25 years.. One day I will get the sweet little Perkins 15kw..

http://www.hardydiesel.com/perkins-gene ... rator.html

Central Maine Diesel also, plus free shipping..
Last edited by grumpy on Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
grumpy
 

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:14 pm

AA130FIREMAN wrote:The onan I found on ebay, 12kw 4 cylinder air cooled diesel, with 630 hours for around $1500 on ebay. Onan has been making gen sets for many years, might be able to find army surplus, but some of them are 400 hertz, and they have army speck build, different gas tank . I needed a new fuel cap, and the company I found that had one wanted $122 (no longer available from cummins/onan) , I bought it direct from the manufacture for $10, onan is expensive when it comes to parts.



Thats a nice deal, I look all the time and don't see that very often, 630 hours is nothing, good for you..
grumpy
 

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: mozz On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:18 pm

I'm cheap, no central air, no air at all as a matter of fact. My generator is generic, (Craftsman exact clone)10hp B&S, 5 kw, 6250 max., paid $399 at Sams club on clearance, transfer switch i found for 75% off at local Ace hardware store. When power goes out here, it is usually raining so that means the sump pump is going to run. My well pump is 120v so that draws some amps, rest is fridge, some 1st floor lights, boiler, garage, couple downstairs outlets. I think the best way to figure out what kind of generator is to figure out what the kw needed is and how comfortable you want to live when there is a power outage. I'm fairly sure Richard lives in a semi populated area so historically his power doesn't go out for days at a time. I'd love to get a small diesel, I keep my eye on the government surplus sales for 5kw-10kw (since i work at the local Army Depot). Bids start at $150.
3kw http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/v ... vertTo=USD
80kw http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/v ... vertTo=USD
5kw http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/v ... vertTo=USD
I also thought diesel = maintenance. Batteries have to be kept trickle charged? Fuel filters and anti gelling stuff? Regular testing and running of the system? Some people don't like all the extras that go along with and cause great reliability. Me, i change my power steering fluid and brake fluid in our 4 daily drivers, AA130 gets anything that moves oiled on the 1st of each month.
mozz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:15 pm

mozz wrote:I also thought diesel = maintenance. Batteries have to be kept trickle charged? Fuel filters and anti gelling stuff?
I would say today's gas doesn't last, gummed up carb's, water with ethanol. Diesel fuel should last longer, add some algee growth preventer. Their are 2 fuel filters, and a sediment bowl on mine, the filters have a drain for water separation. The hard task on a diesel is changing the spark plugs toothy :rofl: :no1: :confused: :doh:
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:28 pm

grumpy wrote:
Thats a nice deal, I look all the time and don't see that very often, 630 hours is nothing, good for you..

I figure it's like 30,000 miles, diesel engines should be good for 200,000-300,000 miles. And if you figure fuel savings with longevity it should last me out. A friend was without power for 5 days, he has a 15kw with an older willys 4 cyl gas engine from WWII era, didn't run it all the time, and he spent over $150 for gas, I can't talk just yet, I don't have it in service, but soon will :)
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: Generator Recommendations

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:20 pm

AA130FIREMAN wrote:
grumpy wrote:
Thats a nice deal, I look all the time and don't see that very often, 630 hours is nothing, good for you..

I figure it's like 30,000 miles, diesel engines should be good for 200,000-300,000 miles. And if you figure fuel savings with longevity it should last me out. A friend was without power for 5 days, he has a 15kw with an older willys 4 cyl gas engine from WWII era, didn't run it all the time, and he spent over $150 for gas, I can't talk just yet, I don't have it in service, but soon will :)



It's not even broken in yet, it could go 15,000 hours, maybe only 10,000 but only if you abuse it.. :D
grumpy