Fire Brick Changes to My Harman MKII

 
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echos67
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Post by echos67 » Mon. Nov. 21, 2011 8:45 pm

echos67 wrote:castable refractory cement
Good idea. I wonder how strong it is. I could cast some re-bar inside it, but I suspect that would not hold up to the heat. :|[/quote]

Cement-Thinset mortar that has excellent bonding strength to masonry.Durable as firebrick when cured. You may not need the rebar.
Rated for 2000*
"For setting and repairing Firebrick"
Applications-"Fireplaces,wood burning stoves,furnaces, and incinerators. Ideal for setting and bonding firebrick in firebox chambers. Can be used to seal air and gas leaks around doors"


 
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 10:15 am

Sorry I'm a little late here .... but tried uploading your pic & got the same BS. Seems it has a compression problem? Out of my area of expertise. I tried resizing it & my computer almost crashed! Bad pic I guess! :lol:

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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 10:31 am

I'm giving more and more thought to making this modification, too. I don't need the BTUs of a larger coal bed but I'm tired of coal falling out when I reload. I already have a burn mark on my hardwood floor from when a hot piece of coal fell out and I didn't see it right away. The higher fire bricks would prevent that. I'll think about it some more. Lisa

 
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Post by rberq » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 11:35 am

lowfog01 wrote:I'm giving more and more thought to making this modification, too. I don't need the BTUs of a larger coal bed but I'm tired of coal falling out when I reload. I already have a burn mark on my hardwood floor from when a hot piece of coal fell out and I didn't see it right away. The higher fire bricks would prevent that. I'll think about it some more. Lisa
Sounds like you and I should swap stoves, Lisa. I DO need the BTUs of a larger coal bed, because I have to really push the Mk I in cold weather. I saw in another post you said you can idle the Mk II down to 10 pounds of coal a day, which is good. It is a little more than the Mk 1 -- I estimate maybe 8 pounds, which is ideal for early and late season here in Maine (October and May).

Look inside to the left and right of the loading door. It appears to me that there is a gap between firebrick and stove body where a specially-cast block would slip right in. But with the stove running, I' m finding it a bit difficult to reach in and take measurements! :| I wonder what else could be used instead of firebrick ... maybe steel or stainless square or rectangular tubing ... something readily available off-the-shelf?

P.S. There is a bracket that hold the front firebricks in place. It bolts on just inside the door, at the bottom. Mine has burned out twice now. Yours?

 
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 12:08 pm

Someone posted this idea, sooo, I cut a piece of 5/8 rebar to put stove side on my front bricks in the Hitzer 50-93, and by God, it's working out real well, no ash or lil pieces at all, & I've been burning since the 1st part of Oct. :) You gotta love the hopper concept.

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 2:34 pm

rberq wrote:. I saw in another post you said you can idle the Mk II down to 10 pounds of coal a day, which is good. It is a little more than the Mk 1 -- I estimate maybe 8 pounds, which is ideal for early and late season here in Maine (October and May).


Yes, the Mark II idles really nice, and then it refreshes quickly for the evening. I brought it before I found the forum so I consider myself lucky that it more then meets our heating needs. Of course, I'm a lot further south then you are, too. Our average temperature is 27*. The only time I had a problem was when the temperature want all the way down to 12*.
rberq wrote:I wonder what else could be used instead of firebrick ... maybe steel or stainless square or rectangular tubing ... something readily available off-the-shelf?
I wonder if we could find something at the auto parts stove, some rectangle piece of stainless steel tubing. The Mark II has rectangle pipes running through the roof of the fire box for heat distribution. Maybe there's something out there that's not as big that could be cut to fit. Nay, it probably wouldn't last very long due to the heat. Can't do anything about it until the spring anyway.
rberq wrote:P.S. There is a bracket that hold the front firebricks in place. It bolts on just inside the door, at the bottom. Mine has burned out twice now. Yours?


I replaced it for the first time this year. I was thinking that maybe that piece could be modified to hold the higher firebricks in place. Maybe a longer strap could be welded on to reach the current screw hole on the stove body. It's certainly worth giving it some thought. It's on the back burner for now because things are just too hectic in my life at this point in time. I'll think about it some more over the summer. Lisa

 
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Chuck_Steak
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Post by Chuck_Steak » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 3:31 pm

I'm not understanding why the thought for a need for a stainless piece... :?:
The stove is not built out of that, and they seem to last quite a while...
If you need to weld something to it, you wouldn't be able to.
If you wanted t drill it, it would be difficult.

Just a piece of mild steel tubing, 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 or 2 x 2 would be great
I should think, for your modification..

Dan


 
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Post by lowfog01 » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 6:49 pm

Chuck_Steak wrote:I'm not understanding why the thought for a need for a stainless piece... :?: Dan
Because the piece of metal that I saw at the auto parts shop was stainless. No other reason then that. I was just brain storming and gathering information. Lisa

 
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Post by Chuck_Steak » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 7:56 pm

lowfog01 wrote: Because the piece of metal that I saw at the auto parts shop was stainless. No other reason then that.
I was just brain storming and gathering information. Lisa
Gotcha..

"IF" you decide to do that, I would be more concerned with wall thickness,
than anything.
If that is some sort of 'decorative' piece, for some application,
chances are it is very thin.

The mild steel square tubing would more than likely be closer to 1/8",
if you get it at a Home Depot type place...
but you can also work with it. Stainless is not easy stuff to work with...

Just tryin' to save you some swear words!! :o

 
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Post by Cap » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:03 pm

Chuck_Steak wrote:I'm not understanding why the thought for a need for a stainless piece... :?:
The stove is not built out of that, and they seem to last quite a while...
If you need to weld something to it, you wouldn't be able to.
If you wanted t drill it, it would be difficult.

Just a piece of mild steel tubing, 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 or 2 x 2 would be great
I should think, for your modification..

Dan
Standard mild steel, if in contact with the coal fire, will rust out in short order. I experimented with these ideas back in '05. The store bought angle iron lasted one season. SS will last much longer. Stove steel while I am not a metallurgist, is certainly higher carbon and can handle the abusive nature of a coal fire.

 
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Post by Bear038 » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:24 pm

If y'all are talking about the front corners, that space is ment to be filled with fire brick.

In doing this project, I completely removed the fire brick and completely cleaned out ALL the ash. Some was so hard and had been in soo long that I had to chisel it out. You need to have something to do a good straight job of cutting the fire brick with. I used a wet tile saw that I have. You can either buy on cheap, or rent one for a few hours even cheaper. Put your five brick in the back wall, and center them as best as possible. there will be small gaps at the ends. ( same as the factor brick had ) Place your two bricks on the ends and hold them as tight as possible to the rear. There is the small angle piece at the top that will hold the tops in while the rest goes in. In my case, I cut the front fire brick at 7 inches tall so they are 5x7's cut from 5x9's. The bracket in the only picture that would upload is made from two pieces of flat steel, and one piece of 1" angle. It was held together with c-clamps till I could tack the pieces together. Then I completely welded it up. I put a 5/16 bolt in the hole that held the old front center bracke. Then with the 5 front 5x7 bricks in place, and the top bracket resting on top of the new brick with small washer for spacer to keep bracket just up off brick, I welded the new bracket to the bolt. The front was really secure when I did that. The only gap there was now, was between the side brick, and the front brick. I cut one more brick down to 5x7, and then cut slivers off of it to fill the gap. One side took 5/8 inch and the other was 3/4. They were tapped in place, and that is what you see in the pictures.

 
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Post by rberq » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:59 pm

rberq wrote:Look inside to the left and right of the loading door. It appears to me that there is a gap between firebrick and stove body where a specially-cast block would slip right in.
freetown fred wrote:I cut a piece of 5/8 rebar to put stove side on my front bricks in the Hitzer 50-93, and by God, it's working out real well
If it works in Freetown it should work in Maine. I took some scrap 1/2 rebar, cut to length, and stacked four pieces in place. The coal can now pile up higher in front without tumbling out the door. It may or may not last in the heat, but even if it has to be replaced each season the cost is next to nothing. It remains to be seen if there will be any problems, but I can undo it in 30 seconds if need be.

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Post by Chuck_Steak » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 9:09 pm

Cap wrote: Standard mild steel, if in contact with the coal fire, will rust out in short order. I experimented with these ideas back in '05. The store bought angle iron lasted one season. SS will last much longer. Stove steel while I am not a metallurgist, is certainly higher carbon and can handle the abusive nature of a coal fire.
Strange.
We replaced the angle that holds the rear firebricks in place in a Mark II, about 8 years ago,
with 1/4" angle, and it's still fine.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 9:36 pm

For whatever reason, I don't think the back on any of them get as hot as the front???

 
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Post by dlj » Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 9:58 pm

Chuck_Steak wrote:
Cap wrote: Standard mild steel, if in contact with the coal fire, will rust out in short order. I experimented with these ideas back in '05. The store bought angle iron lasted one season. SS will last much longer. Stove steel while I am not a metallurgist, is certainly higher carbon and can handle the abusive nature of a coal fire.
Strange.
We replaced the angle that holds the rear firebricks in place in a Mark II, about 8 years ago,
with 1/4" angle, and it's still fine.
I think the key to what Cap said is "in contact with the coal fire". Steel doesn't do so well in direct contact with the fire. It can be quite close to it, and handles ash well, but don't do so great in the fire itself. Problem with the standard off the shelf grades of stainless steels is they can handle the fire pretty well, but don't do so well handling the ash.

If you want an inexpensive metal for the fire box area, cast iron works very well, handles the fire well and handles the ash well.

Although it may seem like a lot of work, you could make up a piece (out of just about any material) that fits well for where you want it to go and send it off to a foundry to get that cast into cast iron part. Do bear in mind that the piece you send will be the pattern for a mold and the piece that comes out of that mold with be smaller than your piece by about 1/8" per foot. so if the piece you send is say 2 feet long and 4 inches wide by say 1/2" thick, the final dimensions will be 1' 11 3/4" long, about 3 and 31/32" wide and pretty much 1/2" thick... You could probably get a simple piece like what you need for that for pretty reasonable.

dj


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