New to the coal world and need a little direction

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: titleist1 On: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:33 pm

regarding the 18" clearance...
I would think if you used insulated flue pipe or used a heat shield you would be able to be closer than 18". In MD use of a heat shield cuts the clearance spec's in half, insulated thimble allows for less clearance to combustibles, but I can't remember the distance. Since you have already got the fire inspector involved he will have the final say as to what you can and can't do (whether it makes any sense or not).

The chimney's don't look like they have any liner to me! But I would also say that if you are burning anthracite hook up to it if there is no place for the exhaust to leak out of and the overall size is not too big to provide proper draft. Your fire inspector will also have the final say on that too.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:36 pm

Tile/terracotta same thing. The fire inspector was referring to the thimble- the opening into the chimney, if you are going to use single wall pipe from the stove to that opening it needs to be 18" from combustables. If you've already involved the code officer (unfortunately) then he may force you to line the flue with stainless as code doesn't approve of new use of unlined flues - again this is left over from all the folks that burned their house down with creosote producing stoves in the 70's. Code doesen't view coal as a different solid fuel from wood when it comes to venting. Your unlined flues aren't in bad shape. the tile lined flues can be used as-is as they will satisfy code, but you need to move the thimble or the combustable wall or use double wall connecting pipe
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:15 pm

You could easily put a heat shield on the "offending" wall to get the acceptable clearance stamp. A friend of mine had the same problem and used a piece of cement board with spacers. A piece of double wall pipe would also work...I believe the clearance requirement for double wall is 6" from a combustible wall, 8" from a combustible ceiling.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

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Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:49 pm

The fire inspector isn't anything important I don't believe I think he is only certified by the county to inspect fireplaces for his company and I am about to fire them because he won't return my phone calls. Instead I got a call from his receptionist telling me that he said its ok to burn coal in a ss liner but I told her I need to talk with him because I want them to install a terracotta liner. 2600$ is the price they are charging me and they have bricked up the fireplace but I want an access door at the bottom to remove any settled ash and they didn't do that so I am telling them too if they call by tomorrow morning , if not , fired!
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:47 pm

Hi and welcome to the forum. You may want to hold off on your trip to Pa for coal. Here is a list of dealers in the South Central region of VA:

Coal suppliers in Central and South VA

RS Monger,
265 Chesapeake Ave, Harrisonburg, VA 22801
(540) 434-3882


Edwards and Sons
6541 Edwards Ln
Port Republic, VA 24471
540-249-4241

City Coal & Crating Company
530 Railroad Avenue
South Boston, VA 24592-3621 map
Phone:
(434) 572-4692

There is a mennitite farmer in Nathalie (near South Boston) who sells Blaschak. He is cash only. I don't know about nut coal, but he sells rice coal by the pallet. His name is Henry Swartzentruber. His # is 434-454-7418.

County Farm Service,
325 Wausau Place
Culpeper, VA 22701
1-540-825-2381
1-877-825-2381

Woodstoves Unlimited
645 James Madison HWY
Culpepper, VA 22701
USA
Phone: (540) 825-5838

They all sell bagged Anthracite but a couple of the dealers may sell soft coal as well. Many dealers will give you a price break if you buy the entire pallet. Another source you may be interested in pursuing is basement mining. I'm told the older homes in Richmond have tons of unused coal in the basements which if you could locate them are often free for the taking. Several forum members use this technique to acquire all their coal for little or no cost. Craig's list may be a good place to start or contacting chimney sweeps or home remodelers.

Of course using bagged coal is more expensive then bulk so making a trip to PA for bulk coal may still be in your future. Buying bagged coal in PA will not save you any money. I know that seems backwards but it's true. I'm in Springfield and the cost of bagged coal in NEPA is almost the same as it is at the dealer nearest to me so I don't waste my time or gas going to NEPA Find your nearest dealer and get the coal from him; that's what I do. Of course, you could do what a lot of folks do and get delivery of an entire truckload or about 22 tons.

As you are discovering the Forum is an incredible body of knowledge, just ask - someone will have the answer or know where to find it. Good luck, Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: echos67 On: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:32 pm

SmokeyJay,

I like the last picture of the fireplace showing the clay thimble the best, something in that picture reminds me of my house !
echos67
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood No. 6.

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:26 am

Thank you so much lowfog01 where did you find out about all those places? I have had such a hard time finding anything other than major coal movers here in VA.

echos67 wrote:SmokeyJay,

I like the last picture of the fireplace showing the clay thimble the best, something in that picture reminds me of my house !


I take it you have an older home as well?
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:34 am

Smokeyja wrote:Thank you so much lowfog01 where did you find out about all those places? I have had such a hard time finding anything other than major coal movers here in VA.


While we are separated by distance there are a few residential coal burners in VA. I try to keep the list of suppliers updated when I hear something. If when you are calling around you find the information bad, please send me a PM so I can correct the list. Good luck with your project. Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:13 pm

I spoke with the owner of the company and he said the flue that they use is 316Ti, a stainless titanium alloy. He also told me his company has a lifetime warranty on all materials they use and if anything ever fails he will fix it for free, installation and all as long as I use them every year as the chimney sweep to clean the chimney which I was planning on anyways . I will have that in writing as well. Sounds good to me. I guess Friday I will have a stove going :)
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: echos67 On: Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:56 pm

Smokeyja wrote:Thank you so much lowfog01 where did you find out about all those places? I have had such a hard time finding anything other than major coal movers here in VA.

echos67 wrote:SmokeyJay,

I like the last picture of the fireplace showing the clay thimble the best, something in that picture reminds me of my house !


I take it you have an older home as well?


Yep, older home and the right to bear arms to protect it!
echos67
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood No. 6.

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: echos67 On: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:00 pm

Smokeyja wrote:I spoke with the owner of the company and he said the flue that they use is 316Ti, a stainless titanium alloy. He also told me his company has a lifetime warranty on all materials they use and if anything ever fails he will fix it for free, installation and all as long as I use them every year as the chimney sweep to clean the chimney which I was planning on anyways . I will have that in writing as well. Sounds good to me. I guess Friday I will have a stove going :)


Thats great news, hopefully they have been in business for many years and you dont have to worry about them going anywhere if you ever need to call in warranty work.
Will you be calling the inspector back ?
echos67
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood No. 6.

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: musikfan6 On: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:55 pm

SteveZee wrote:First off, you are not the first person to have this liner problem. There are several threads lately where people were told that a SS liner was the top of the line and even that it "ok" for coal. An unlined masonry is truely better(for coal) as you've now found out. While for wood burning it is probably an excellent chimney, you FIL is quite right that you'll need to keep an eye on it and scrub down at the end of each season.

Also you must remember that most of the coal suggestions (sizes) people are giving you assume that you'll use anthracite. With bit coal, that doesn't apply and you would be looking for Kentucky lump coal. For anthracite, you'll want nut or stove coal. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you and I hope it works out that you can see the advantages of coal. It's 16 degrees outside, here on the coast of Maine this morning, and the house is a lovely 71 degrees! Still amazes me and I know what to expect! :D



Ok Guys. You're scaring me!! Did I waste 800.00 to buy a stainless steel flexible chimney liner after being recommended by all the local stove people to most definitely have one because it is the safest method?? That's what I 'm using right now, and I also read in another reply to this thread about sulfuric acid build up or something like that... Do I now need to be extra cautious as I burn all winter?? I thought that I'd get the best draft control with a SS liner. I guess I'm just thinking about the money I could have saved if this is the case..... Honestly, my stove is doing great, but I hate to bear the thought that I could potentially have problems. Will the liner really only last me about 10 years or so?? (That's something else I read in this thread...)
musikfan6
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: 1475

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:05 pm

echos67 wrote:
Smokeyja wrote:Thank you so much lowfog01 where did you find out about all those places? I have had such a hard time finding anything other than major coal movers here in VA.

echos67 wrote:SmokeyJay,

I like the last picture of the fireplace showing the clay thimble the best, something in that picture reminds me of my house !


I take it you have an older home as well?


Yep, older home and the right to bear arms to protect it!


Right on! I have quite a bit of protection myself ;)

echos67 wrote:
Smokeyja wrote:I spoke with the owner of the company and he said the flue that they use is 316Ti, a stainless titanium alloy. He also told me his company has a lifetime warranty on all materials they use and if anything ever fails he will fix it for free, installation and all as long as I use them every year as the chimney sweep to clean the chimney which I was planning on anyways . I will have that in writing as well. Sounds good to me. I guess Friday I will have a stove going :)


Thats great news, hopefully they have been in business for many years and you dont have to worry about them going anywhere if you ever need to call in warranty work.
Will you be calling the inspector back ?


The fire inspector is the owner of the company and he's not coming out Friday. He got a building permit for me a few weeks ago already. This company does seem really good but for some reason there was a issue with our communication and it started all these issues but I spoke with the owner this morning and everything is good. He is a Brit that came here 22 years ago.

http://eurotechchimney.com/ this is the company I used but I had a few others qoute me first. The reason I chose this company was for their excellent knowledge of lime mortar. Other companies use the Portland lime crap which should never be used in an older structure.
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: Berlin On: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:10 am

[/quote]
Ok Guys. You're scaring me!! Did I waste 800.00 to buy a stainless steel flexible chimney liner after being recommended by all the local stove people to most definitely have one because it is the safest method?? That's what I 'm using right now, and I also read in another reply to this thread about sulfuric acid build up or something like that... Do I now need to be extra cautious as I burn all winter?? I thought that I'd get the best draft control with a SS liner. I guess I'm just thinking about the money I could have saved if this is the case..... Honestly, my stove is doing great, but I hate to bear the thought that I could potentially have problems. Will the liner really only last me about 10 years or so?? (That's something else I read in this thread...)[/quote]

You won't have ten years on it before it will begin to pinhole and deteriorate. The stove shops and sweeps like to push them because it adds some profit and most of them don't know any better. Stainless won't hold up with coal. It's a waste of time and money. I took down a class A 316 stainless chimney this summer, 3 years with anthracite and one year with bit and the top four sections were rotted badly where they joined together and there were pinholes and rough spots throughout. I hate to see people continue to the throw money away on something that's unnecessary, expensive, and potentially decreases the safety of the system. That coal stove dealers and coal sellers push these things drives me nuts.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: New to the coal world and need a little direction

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:41 am

Berlin wrote:You won't have ten years on it before it will begin to pinhole and deteriorate. ...That coal stove dealers and coal sellers push these things drives me nuts.


Berlin is right on this, I'm on my 6th year with SS and I'm starting to see deterioration. And I've been very careful to clean the chimney out after each season and wipe it down with baking soda. This off season I noticed rust forming on around the cap and down the outside a couple of inches. It appears that flyash has been carried out on the draft and stuck due to moisture. I treated it with a rust fix product but once it's started that's only a stop gap. I'm not seeing any deterioration on the inside yet but expect I will in a couple of years. When it comes time to replace the SS chimney I will have a tile one put in. It's not that much more money and it will last a lot longer.

There has been a lot of discussion on this; do a search using the upper right hand search button for more information. Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I

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