Harmans New Website

Maybe there was a Harman bailout we didn't hear about on the news??? Sounds like they're getting direction from our government .... Or taking pointers from GM executives ....

People need to smarten up & stop buying from companies when they treat their customers this way. After buying my Silverado back in '07, I have never been more disgusted with a company than I am with GM. They sell overpriced junk, & keep all the info necessary for you to do your own repairs a big secret - like it's a matter of national security or something. What a joke. Things certainly need to change in that respect to the business world.

Or you have a super-insulated foam house R-120 with zero infiltration...
It only requires 8 btu/sq ft at -10...
Then your up to xxxx sq ft will work...

I could be wrong but it looks like they did the same thing with their pellet stoves. They look like very high square footage for pellet stoves.

you are correct. It looks like they changed most of them. Fine print reads

*For select products: Heating capacity represents a well insulated home with low ceilings in a mild climate. Heating capacity (in square footage) is a guideline only and may differ slightly due to climate, building construction and condition, amount and quality of insulation, location of the heater, and air movement in the room.

All I can say is they must be very low ceilings around 4ft maybe? I always thought Harman to make a decent stove and be a decent company. I guess times change. I find it very hard to believe that 1 pellet stove (p68) will heat 3,900 sq ft. I have burned pellets in the past and that just isn't going to heat that square footage.

There is no way in hell a Mark I will heat 2,600 sq.ft. - I can tell you that from experience. It struggled to heat this place at about 1,600 sq.ft., overfiring every minute of it's operation.

Looks like Harman is taking pointers from our government: Just tell lies & everything will be great!

[quote="coalnewbie"]Harman stoves as a quality vendor died Dec 31 2007 when HNI bought them. Older MAgnums and even the DVC was designed and brought to market by the guy that built the business and made the best quality products. The newer Magnums look pretty but I think have now plastic gears from the pellet stoves (please correct me if I am wrong). Why? to save money. Why should the gear motors fail at all under waranty - hmmm, let me guess. So now this poster is happy he got a new crappy motor that will last another three years or so until he comes across the first rock in his coal pile.

I agree 100% with your statement regarding "Harman stoves as a quality vendor.........." absolutely true... Not sure about the new "Super Magnum" as mine is an "older" Mag Stoker, but it appears that they are now using a very similar parallel shaft gear motor to that found on any of the carpet feed type stoves... Not exactly a good idea in my book, but I will never have to worry about finding out just how good/bad they really are, simple, I will never buy one!!! As far as the gear motor on my Mag, I really could care less if any of the motors (blowers included) ever go bad again, I won't pay for the replacements, in fact, why bother cleaning them annually when you can simply take them back to Grainger (in working order or not) and hand it over the counter to the sales guy and he hands you a new replacement free of hassle, free of charge!!! So you see my friend, there is in fact a method to the madness, highly calculated and always well executed...

Heat output ratings have always been a problem with heating appliances. With the advent of IBR (The institute of Boiler and Radiator Manufacturers) methods of determining ratings were fixed so if you buy a boiler with an IBR tag you pretty much can rely on the rating.

With our coal stoves the manufacturer and or the distributor sets the rating and we have no way of knowing how that rating was arrived at. In Europe they seem more reliable with government testing agencies.

As an example the stoves I am most familiar with Franco Belge. In the 1970s the importer rated the three sizes at 20,000, 25,000, and 30,000 BTU. However the early stoves still had on them a plate with the French ratings which were 16,000 and 21,000 for the two smallest sizes and I think about 27,000 for the largest. With a change of importers the rating for the largest became 48,000 and 38,800 for the middle size. Obviously something is wrong.

Those outputs can probably be reached but only at the expense of over firing the stove.

My own view is that a stove should be rated at the point where its efficiency is highest. I think this would conform with reasonable firing rates.

Some time ago Doug posted these figures showing how many BTU are emitted from a square ft. of heating surface at various temperatures. You can see that going from 400 to 600 more than doubles the output. If you need a lot of heat you will need enough square feet of heating surface to avoid excess surface temperature.

Temperature of Surface Fairenhiet -------------- Total Energy Transferred BTU's per hour per foot

80* ------------------------------------------------------ 15 BTU's / Sq.Ft.
100* ------------------------------------------------------ 51 BTU's / Sq.Ft.
150* ------------------------------------------------------ 168 BTU's / Sq.Ft.
200* ------------------------------------------------------ 315 BTU's / Sq.Ft.
400* ------------------------------------------------------ 1230 BTU's / Sq.Ft.
600* ------------------------------------------------------ 2850 BTU's / Sq.Ft.
800* ------------------------------------------------------ 5430 BTU's / Sq.Ft.
1200* ----------------------------------------------------- 9370 BTU's / Sq.Ft.

cowentz wrote:... now they say a Mark II will heat up to 3,800 sq ft. I thought I remember in the past a Mark II heating capacity was 1800 sq ft.

I was thinking of switching from a MK I to a MK II to get more heat. Now I see to be warmer I just have to get new documentation.

They will probably have to go back to the real numbers in the future. Complaints from customers and other coal stove manufacturers will come down on them hard but this will take a little time. You just don't jump up with the numbers overnight like Harman did. On paper numbers are one thing but in the home where these stoves are being used, now thats just another story. I think that the customers and the members on this site who burn Harmans know better. The complaints toward this company are growing. It's a shame because they do make some really nice stoves.

I get to bend the ears of 2 Harman reps on Dec. 3rd...
It should be informative...

buck24 wrote:They will probably have to go back to the real numbers in the future. Complaints from customers and other coal stove manufacturers will come down on them hard but this will take a little time. You just don't jump up with the numbers overnight like Harman did. On paper numbers are one thing but in the home where these stoves are being used, now thats just another story. I think that the customers and the members on this site who burn Harmans know better. The complaints toward this company are growing. It's a shame because they do make some really nice stoves.

Maybe this will end up in a lawsuit like the small engine debacle, where a class action suit was brought against small engine manufacturers for false advertising. This is the reason you don't see engine horsepower anymore. It's gross torque, or just cc's of the engine.

Stoves won't be rated in BTU's after that. Wonder what they'll come up with for a heat rating? Pounds of fuel per hour? Too many variables there ....

I suggest that everyone here that's interested, or willing enough, to contact Harman by email or phone. With over 5,000 registered users of this board, I'm sure at least 10% percent of us could find the time to contact them and make a difference!

Making someone could post a poll where we could click depending on if we emailed or phoned?

Maybe I am missing it, but I do not see anywhere on the new website to contact them other than "my project". Any one see something else there?

They have a link where you can send them an email. Problem is, no one answers any of those emails.