Shortage

freetown fred · By: **freetown fred** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:06 am

How about first focusing on good for the USA & HER needs??

coalnewbie · By: **coalnewbie** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:26 am

I totally agree and how is importing less oil as we are burning more coal and employing Americans to do it incompatible with that idea? Fred, go get your morning dose of hexanoic acid.

lsayre · By: **lsayre** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:31 am

freetown fred wrote:How about first focusing on good for the USA & HER needs??

If the mines are selling to the Chinese, it is because they are paying a hefty premium and firmly committing to contracted purchases well in advance. They have a serious and massively huge need for quality coking coal or its near equivalent (I.E., anthracite). They are not using high quality anthracite for the purposes of heat or electrical power generation.

Anthracite will flow to the highest guaranteed (and paid in advance) money source. While we are collectively and individually wallowing near bankruptcy, China is swimming in money.

When our company does business with overseas companies we have to have their money in our hands up front. I'm confident that this is also a requirement for coal purchases.

kstills · By: **kstills** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:37 am

Here's the article, I think:

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=349372
[*]
F.M. Brown's Sons Inc. has sold anthracite coal from its location at 717 Lancaster Ave. since 1920 and has never turned away a new customer.

"That's until this year," said Kelly Brown, assistant manager of the farm feed and fuel company that has been operating in Berks County since 1843.

Brown said a variety of factors - not the least of which is that China, India and other Asian countries are buying up more than half the 6 billion tons of coal burned each year - have led to an anthracite coal shortage in Berks.

Anthracite coal is the most efficient, cleanest burning type of coal and in the U.S. is found only in northeastern Pennsylvania in a swath that stretches from Dauphin County through Schuylkill and Carbon counties, ending near the Scranton area.

The dearest commodity is rice coal, a finer, gravel-like anthracite coal product used in the newer, more-efficient home stoves and furnaces that are used as supplemental heat sources in many homes. The shortage has been harder on the Amish because many use coal as their main source of heat and energy, Brown said.

I mean, that figures, right? I switch to coal at the beginning of the great anth rice coal shortage.

I called my guy in Bucks County last nite, he said don't run out, make sure you top off your bin when you have the room. He's supposed to get three trailer loads of rice in December, but he's not entirely sure that'll happen. Ironically, he said that rice was easier to get than nut. Also said that it's the regs that are keeping the supply tight, South Tamaqua has had a permitting issue for 7 months that they can't get movement on.

Best of luck, I might have to turn the thermostat down this winter afterall. :mad:

btw, wtf is up with the quote function? Not enabled here?

lsayre · By: **lsayre** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:49 am

Corporations, despite legally having the status of persons, are entities without soul or conscience.

“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."
Matthew 6:24 (English Standard version)

Corporations, being without soul, worship only money.

steamup · By: **steamup** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:55 pm

We have to realize that the coal industry or any industry doesn't change volumes of production quickly, especially when regulations are involved.

In 2001 Antracite hit a all time low in production. Do doubt no one would be investing in equipment and mines at that time. It was fortunate the industy kept going ant that more people didn't call it quits.

When I first was looking at going to coal, I could have gotten bulk at $100 per ton plus $25 ton delivery. It when up a little every year plus diesel about doubled. It cost me $150/ton plus $38.00 ton delivery when I finally could make move to buy bulk. I expect the next load when I buy will be closer to 190 to $200 a ton.

Not only is this due to demand, but the industry must upgrade or replace worn out equipment. The equipment doesn't last forever and it is incredably expensive. No douby many let things slide in 2001 when the demand was low. The industry will respond and the shortage will subside. The only shortage is for cheap coal.

Treat your coal reserve like the gas tank on your car during a gas crisis. Keep enough in it while you wait in line so you don't run out.

Richard S. · By: **Richard S.** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:00 pm

freetown fred wrote:My point being, why not an export tax now,

Because I see this as an opportunity for the anthracite producers to expand. If the demand is there you'll see more production which means more jobs. Might be some growing pains along the way.

freetown fred · By: **freetown fred** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:05 pm

Yea but Richard, don't you think that if these other countries REALLY need it, they would be willing to pay the cost. Or, are we just the ones doing it for less money then any other providers?? The good old USA--the fixer of all woe's, no matter the cost to our own needs???? Don't make sense to me.I agree with the expansion concept, but damn, my guy is up $20.00 in a month & I don't have a problem coming up with it & I'm old & poor. I don't mean down to my last $10,000.00--I mean poor.

Richard S. wrote:
freetown fred wrote:My point being, why not an export tax now,

Because I see this as an opportunity for the anthracite producers to expand. If the demand is there you'll see more production which means more jobs. Might be some growing pains along the way.

Richard S. · By: **Richard S.** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:29 pm

freetown fred wrote:Yea but Richard, don't you think that if these other countries REALLY need it, they would be willing to pay the cost.

If the industry were to expand the prices will come down again, this may be blessing in a disguise and you may be paying a lot less for coal in the future. People need jobs and demand from the Chinese will create them. Keep in mind Fred when I'm talking about an export tax I'm looking long term, I mean when the *censored* starts hitting the fan in 2 or 3 decades. A one nation monopoly of coal called COALPEC.

samhill · By: **samhill** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:39 pm

Just came across this but I don't know if it will be good or bad for us, if the steelmaker is getting 20% off the top they may buy more but it still will leave a lot more on the market.
http://www.mining.com/2011/07/28/fortun ... sit-in-bc/

coalnewbie · By: **coalnewbie** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:40 pm

Then as oil and gas runs out we will go back to horsepec and Fred and I have it made. So just hang on Fred and remember when you feel like dying - don't.

ValterBorges · By: **ValterBorges** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:42 pm

There is no shortage!

+1

I find the same if i call a landscaper for mulch to early in the season, its just not cost effective or they are on vacation or focusing on other businesses at the moment, just not worth starting all the machinery and coordinate all the labor to satisfy off season demand or small orders.

freetown fred · By: **freetown fred** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:49 pm

AAAAAh, gottcha.

Richard S. wrote:
freetown fred wrote:Yea but Richard, don't you think that if these other countries REALLY need it, they would be willing to pay the cost.

If the industry were to expand the prices will come down again, this may be blessing in a disguise and you may be paying a lot less for coal in the future. People need jobs and demand from the Chinese will create them. Keep in mind Fred when I'm talking about an export tax I'm looking long term, I mean when the *censored* starts hitting the fan in 2 or 3 decades. A one nation monopoly of coal called COALPEC.

Ashcat · By: **Ashcat** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:08 pm

Also, it's no sure thing that demand from China will remain as high as it's been recently. The most recent data suggests Chinese manufacturing is contracting...
http://newsinabox.net/2177/china-s-manu ... -2009.html
http://www.npr.org/2011/12/02/143048898 ... my-hiccups
...And there is much more anthracite in Asia, and being exported from Asia, than in NEPA.

In a contraction, you might expect that Chinese imports of NEPA anthracite should be the first to be dialed back. So, as Richard suggests, intermediate- to longer-term, any expansion of capacity by NEPA producers, to meet transitory increased demand from China, may have us US ant burners smiling in a few years.

freetown fred · By: **freetown fred** On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:11 pm

My understanding is that it is cheaper to export from the USA then it is to transport in China. :wtf:

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