Shortage

Shortage

PostBy: hophead On: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:54 pm

Just as I've said a few times here before. In the back page of the local newspaper there's an article about a dealer 50 mi away that has been selling coal for 90 continuous years. His suppliers will no longer fill his orders as half of the anthracite mined will be going to the far east for the next 6 to eight years. All you fellows who don't live in the region are going to start paying some really premium prices in the near future. Contact your politicos and ask why half our coal goes overseas, especially to China! If it must go there make sure they pay through the nose.

Oh yeah, Don't forget to tell all your friends and neighbors how much they can save by burning coal and watch the price go up even more.
hophead
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm520

Re: Shortage

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:56 am

Ouch, outstanding post my friend. People don't think nor mostly understand reality until it bitch slaps them personaly. But, as usual, time will tell & the perverbial weed out process will begin. ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Shortage

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:19 am

hophead wrote:If it must go there make sure they pay through the nose.


I'd agree to some extent but not sure now is the time. The greatest thing about this nation is the vast natural resources we have. Certainly in the future as more nations begin to look to the US for raw products like fossil fuels we need to consider a export tax on them.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite


Re: Shortage

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:52 am

well, you could always switch to bitty :D
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Shortage

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:56 am

Or we could stop being dumb-ass's and let THEM switch to bitty. Richard, when might that time be, when we are down to the level of not being able to support our own needs? :(
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Shortage

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:59 am

freetown fred wrote:Ouch, outstanding post my friend. People don't think nor mostly understand reality until it bitch slaps them personaly. But, as usual, time will tell & the perverbial weed out process will begin. ;)

There is no shortage!
If you don't believe me call the mine of your choice and tell them you'll be there tomorrow for 30 tons and see what they say. The problems are in the supply chain and end user. I'll start from the mine. The equipment used to transport coal is just a "little" different than hauling rock and freight, you need a really big body made from aluminum to transport enough to make it profitable. Next is the dealer that sells it. He needs to buy and sell a lot to stay in business, that's why almost every coal dealer has something else going on. He sells hardware, has a body shop or garden center, something to pay the bills. Some of them, the old timers especially are retiring or just plain run out of money. And last but not least, the customer. These morons always wait until the last minute to buy the stuff........ when they absolutely need it! That's why we get these shortage threads every year when it turns cold. This year it's the Chinese. Sure, they bought some anthracite this summer but I doubt it was for energy. Why pay $155 a ton when you can get bit for 1/3 the price? More than likely it was for water filtration.

I was at a mine on Thursday, one trailer dump was being loaded when I got there, a tri-axle dump came in when I was leaving. There were thousands of tons of the stuff everywhere you looked. There is no shortage, it's just a comedy of errors to get some of it.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Shortage

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:07 am

My point being, why not an export tax now, I don't see any country's doing us any big favors except Mexico with a whole lot of drugs--shortage or not--we need to do some futureistic thinking on our Country's projected useage instead if the quick buck schemes--and you're right, my dealor has plenty of coal that has gone up $20.00 in the past month & that is just supply & demand.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Shortage

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:11 am

freetown fred wrote:My point being, why not an export tax now, I don't see any country's doing us any big favors except Mexico with a whole lot of drugs--shortage or not--we need to do some futureistic thinking on our Country's projected useage instead if the quick buck schemes--and you're right, my dealor has plenty of coal that has gone up $20.00 in the past month & that is just supply & demand.

It went up because diesel and labor went up, the price at the mine remains the same as almost 2 years ago.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Shortage

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:17 am

Lighten up my friend, I'm agreeing with you--BUT, and we all know what comes after BUTT :rofl: I'm just saying we need to get over our perverbial case of tunnel vision as far as the whole industry goes--TODAY, not 10 yrs down the road.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Shortage

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:24 am

It goes up because of demand, diesel is no longer a big factor & labor has been keeping pretty quiet because of the economy(they feel lucky to have work) the price always goes up with diesel but stays when diesel drops. A lot of outfits put on a fuel surcharge (or some other fee) Waste Management comes to mind, then when diesel drops the price increase became an environmental surcharge in order to make room for the next diesel increase.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
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Re: Shortage

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:42 am

samhill wrote:It goes up because of demand, diesel is no longer a big factor & labor has been keeping pretty quiet

Yeah, that's probably it, the mines use diesel and labor. The only guy around here that has any bulk wants $280 a ton. I would have trouble with that price for bagged, that's why I decided to make a run to the mine.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Shortage

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:49 am

Thats right, the price probably hasn't gone up that much at the mine, I wish it was closer for me. It's the middle man & the retailer that jack the price because the weather turned colder & demand is up. Used to be the other way around, now if they know you need it you will pay.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Shortage

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:51 am

samhill wrote:Thats right, the price probably hasn't gone up that much at the mine, I wish it was closer for me. It's the middle man & the retailer that jack the price because the weather turned colder & demand is up. Used to be the other way around, now if they know you need it you will pay.


Would it be fair to say that prices at the mines are up about 10% vs. a year ago?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Shortage

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:57 am

I paid $155 a ton and have seen higher prices posted in the past, up to $170 IIRC. I don't think it is any higher but coalberner would know, the old sage knows everything about this stuff. :)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Shortage

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:01 am

So let me review we go from about 100MM tons about 100 years ago employing 1000s of people to about 2MM. Plenty of reserves for us all. I favor a controlled expansion of our anthracite industry. Periodic shortages enable miners to jack up prices which makes more people think there is money to be made mining coal and that creates competition and then we search for a lower price. It's called capitalism. Our nitwit President (sorry Richard) had the opportunity to manage this one but missed the boat. How else are we supposed to grow the industry and employ more people?

If all natural resources should be kept within the country that is an interesting position but look at the rare earth story from China. Great short term, have you tried to but a PMG alternator recently? but now look at the MASSIVE factory built from the ground up in Malayasia on a war footing as many industries there were crippled by this export ban. Now China will have to deal with this competitor and others for ever and PMG motor makers will source from them not China. Rare earths are not so rare.

If all we are left with is one miner in this back garden shoveling anthracite to feed my stove, stoves will be very expensive and if another person wants anthracite I'm in trouble. If the industry is growing and at a 50MM ton per year level there will be lots of miners, lots of stoves and LOTS OF JOBS. Lets the industry grow, it's good for America. NEPA and my back pocket.

So that nitwit Reading rag journalist says there now is a shortage for ever. That is why he is stuck where he is and why I am stuck shoveling horse manure.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
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