"New" Warm Morning 500

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:16 pm

Just so you'll know what it looks like when you talk to HITZER ;)
LsFarm wrote:I would definitely try a smaller coal, but the ashes on the grate will do the most to slow the fire..

NOW don't complain.. once the temps reach the teens you will be GLAD you have a heater that just shruggs off the cold temps..

Take care, I still think you could call Hitzer and get one of their thermostatic controls, I think it mounts on the back side of the stove, has a hanging chain that is attached to an angled door on the air feed vent.. the chain lifts as the temp drops, opening the air vent, drops once the temp rises..

Can you attach a 2"x3" piece of pipe to the bottom of the stove's ashpan box? and rig up an attachement point for the bimetal thermostat and chain??

Just 'thinkin'

Greg L
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freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:18 pm

Yes Greg I can. I'll only have to take out a minimum amount of jacket beside one of the existing holes for the damper since both are too close to the side of the ash pan area:

Image

As it stands right now, I had to get up at 3:30 AM to reload the stove on the first night it was in when I woke up cold. I didn't wake up last night and this morning I woke to a cold (67 degree) stove room and 62-63 in the rest of the house. Sounds pretty good until you realize that with the circulator I replaced neither would have happened on a mid 20's night. I need to load this thing every 4 hours. Any underfire air and it runs wild. Running just overfire my full load quits effectively heating 4-5 hours into the load. I've filled it with lump large enough to barely fit through the door, I've filled it with range (Nothing smaller than 1" up to fist size) and neither has given satisfactory performance when compared to my old stove. Oh well, I should have waited for a model 400 with its larger capacity (20 lbs more) and a thermostat.
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:20 pm

Thanks Fred. I'm considering that one or the whole assembly from US Stove for one of their circulators.
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500


Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:31 pm

please excuse my ignorance.. a model 400 is bigger than the 500?? sounds like today's marketing ideas.. :lol:

I thought you had a much larger unit in the '500' vs the 400. soooo. I guess using small coal and controling the draft as much as possible.. and under shaking the grate, keeping the air flow restricted..

And keeping an 'eye open' for a larger unit.

Hope all goes well, I'd just set an alarm, keep a coal skuttle full at the ready, wake up, dump coal, stop by the bathroom and back to bed.. and wake up to a 'warm morning' :lol: best you can do ??

Take care, Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:39 pm

Based on advertising the 400 was a 100 lb with thermostat and my 500 was an 80 lb without. I haven't given up on this one yet. But if I'm still getting up in the night next weekend I will put the old stove back. Here's what I ought to put on the 500, but it's on a really nice Kenmore branded circulator that I really hate to tear up. A one piece bolt on Robertshaw theromstat that pushes the air flap closed an relaxes to open it. I'm no stove expert but I've never seen another like it.

Image

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Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:03 pm

You tried--BuyCheaper.com & type in Robert Shaw thermostat or number if you can find it???
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:54 am

Stephen in Soky wrote:I will put the old stove back.

The Kenmore worked better than the 500?
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:28 am

The Kenmore held fire longer and provided more even heat than the 500. The 500 hasn't gone out on me since friday, so it holds fire fine, but it ceases to provide meaningful heat earlier than the Kenmore. I'm running through a great deal more coal with the 500 and getting less useful heat.

I'm thinking perhaps it's a draft issue? I've always been blessed with a wicked good draft here even in mild weather. While the MPD will slow it considerably, I wonder if seriously setting my BD will be the key to longer burns? I plan to call around podunk today in hopes of finding a Dwyer for sale. If I can't find one I'll impose on a neighbor in the HVAC business to stop by with one. Apparently the WMs like a lower draft, or .02 seems to be lower based on the posts here. I say .02 based on the notes someone else kindly posted on another thread which reads "Draft should be .02 immediately before the barometric draft control, 11-14-84 by Rich".

BTW, how close to single wall can the actual manometer be mounted on the wall?

Any other thoughts? I really want this stove to work out.
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:15 pm

I'm surprised the WM stove doesn't work as good as the Kenmore. (I'm assuming that's the stove you had in there) I would have expected performance to be close to equal between these stoves with the WM performing a little better. Maybe the Kenmore draft control is the key and is more air-tight than the WM..?
Do you just like the looks of the WM better...?why not use the Kenmore instead? Parts might be an issue for the Kenmore though.

I have a manometer about 2 feet away from the single wall stove pipe on the circulator stove in the library right now. Lots of info about it here.
manometer install
As far as the .02 draft, that is too low in my opinion. I prefer about .04 to .05 for these types of stoves to insure adequate draft though the entire burn cycle. When they gave that recommendation, I bet they were giving a "best guess"for setting the damper without verifying it with a draft gauge.
Keep in mind that soot can build up very quickly on a MPD causing draft issues.
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:54 pm

I too was expecting better performance from the WM, particularly in the length of burn. Also the Kenmore doesn't like smaller coal at all, I assumed the WM handle small coal much better. IMO, the only reason the Kenmore has any edge at all is the bi-metal thermostat. I can't actually get nearly as much coal in it as I can the WM which I assumed would lead to longer burns/better performance. I spent quite a bit of time adjusting closures/slide dampers etc., cementing even potential leaks and going over the WM prior to installation. I was actually pleasantly suprised at how quickly I could choke down a fire when I shut her completely down. Although not technically airtight, she's pretty darned close.

I still have hopes that regulating my vigorous draft more accurately is the key. I haven't yet located a manometer but still have a couple of place to call. I avoid having anything shipped this time of year unless absolutely necesary due to the high volume shippers are encountering for Christmas.
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:00 pm

Stephen, I also am surprised the WM isn't putting the Kenmore to shame--something ain't right??? Keep playing with her.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:08 pm

Success! It was an overdraft situation. Once I dialed my BD in and relieved the excess draft I've been having 10 hour+ productive burns with no significant heat loss in the house. Thanks to Berlin's suggestion I'm only using the underfire air on reloads and running the stove with overfire air barely open. It's still running hotter than I'm accustomed to, but I'm very happy with the WM. I do still need the MPD to slow things down after a reload even with the BD. That may change after I obtain a manometer next week and actually set the BD.

I do have a question though. After a reload, usually in the 40 lb range, I have issues with overheating when trying to get the full reload on fire. I have been revving it up with underfire air, shaking, and putting about half the reload in then allowing that to catch before filling her up. In order to have flames/orange glow at the top of the coal rather than just in the 4 interior flues I have to leave the underfire air open so long it wants to overheat the stove & pipe. Must the full charge of coal be lit before I shut her down to cruising setting with only the overfire air?

ETA: I'm running what I think would be called Range size. Nothing smaller than one inch with approximately 60-70% being fist to double fist size.
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: johnhenry On: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:30 am

when i started reading this i was thinking come trade me for my 400a , the more i read the worse the 500 sounds
johnhenry
 
Stove/Furnace Make: warm morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 400a

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:38 am

Stephen, the only reason to make sure the fresh load of coal is burning before shutting down the draft is to prevent the volitiles that 'cook off' the fresh coal to linger above the fire, and accumulate to the point that once they do ignite, it's a pretty vigorous ignition.. that the long way to describe a minor explosion.

You can read in the 'hand fired' forum about 'minor explosions' the thread is a sticky, near the top of the hand fired forum.

So as long as you have fire or flames from the fresh coal, you know the volitiles have a flame source or 'pilot light' to ignite the gasses.. you can then close down the air to the fire, and let it burn.

The wM stoves have the hollow corner firebrick with the hot air passageways, so I think that the 'puff backs' would be less likely than with a traditional firebox/firebrick setup.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:38 am

It was just me learning the WM. We're getting along much better now. I still miss the bi-metal you have, and I could use the extra 20 lb capacity, but I do appreciate the design features of the Warm Mornings more each day. 25+ years of wood burning were hard to overcome for me. That and the fact that we've had so little actual winter temps this year made learning a new stove frustrating for me. The WM does perform better when it's under 30 than hen it's 40+ degrees outside. Had I not installed the BD, I would have switched back to wood and coal. With the BD, and a few new techniques, the 500 has become a real heater for me.
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500