"New" Warm Morning 500

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:52 am

Well I got the Warm Morning up and running... filled all the gaps that showed light but missed one... the top where the top door assembly attaches to the stove... how I missed that I do not know but it was drafting quite well through this area and was a noticeable whistle.. I will fill that and should be off to the races...

No baro and no MPD installed... MISTAKE... I added about 30 lbs of coal and once it got going I shut the stove completely down and still the stack temps rose to nearly 650... I had to open the front door to calm the stack temps. I think my draft is out of control.. This is a 25 foot brand new SS chimney. I have a manometer on the way and will be installing a baro hopefully this week. If I can not get the stack temps under control this will be a futile project as 30 lbs will burn faster than I can fill it since I have to work.

Also there is light around both the top and bottom doors... not much but I would like to fill that to assist with making the stove more air tight. CC you indicated using high temp RTV and placing plastic wrap on one side. Let me see if i understand. Place a thin bead of RTV... cover with plastic wrap... shut the door to mold to the door ... open the door and let dry... then remove the plastic wrap... ?????

Also going to stop by the wood stove store to see if they have some small ribbon rope gasket... just a thought.

Any other ideas on getting this stove up and running to perfection.

Thanks
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump


Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: corey On: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:48 am

It sound like you have some major cracks and a wicked strong drafting chimney. I would differently install a pipe damper and seal those cracks right away.
corey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: USS Ashley coal stove
Coal Size/Type: Eastern KY bituminous

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:38 am

CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:50 am

CC thanks. I will try that for a door gasket.... Corey cracks are sealed all except that one above the door and cracks that exist due to no door gasket on these stoves. I spent a long time last night with the lights off looking for any sign of light coming out of the stove.. nothing. I think my draft must be extremely strong.. manometer is on the way so we will see. Might see if the HVAC guys at work have one I can borrow just to check it out.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:26 pm

yep, you absolutely have to seal up that lower door. best if you patch the one near the upper door too but, that one is actually acting as a "brake" on the draft thru the fire pot.

i would advise getting an MPD in there between the stove elbow and the Baro. put the Mano. probe between the MPD and the stove elbow.

i have a SS liner inside an interior masonry chimney a bit longer than you have, it's going to be an issue getting that thing tamed.

around here they call them "atomic leaf vacuums"

steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:02 am

Ok finally got what i needed for the Baro install ... after two trips to town.. 80 miles one way. I hooked everything up and started the fire. all was well at first 20 lbs then added another 20 and once she got going it was out of control. I shut the stove down all the way and the baro was wide open. I thought it was going to hold at the 450 mark... walked inside for a very short minute and when i went back the thermo was pegged... I was able to put the brakes on by opening the door... all seemed better once the volatiles burned off but with the stove idling it was still 500 with the baro at full tilt.... you could see flames licking up the pipe every now and again.

Specs are: baro mounted about 18 inches up from the flue-- this is to the center of the baro... bottom of the baro is about 13 inches... did this because did not want to suck the heat from the top of the stove right out. I do not have my manometer YET so no idea what the draft is... stay tuned for that update.. hopefully will be here monday.

Problem is that this was only 40 lbs of coal. First thought was a heat reclaimer... but not sure about that. No real second thought at this time but it has to be faster to load and leave than this... i invested more time today fooling with it than i would normally have to invest to keep this pumping heat on a continual basis.

Any thoughts... no MPD installed ... if I did install it it would need to be immediately above the flue only leaving about 12 inches from the baro.

Thoughts comments?????
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:29 am

AlaskaCoal1 wrote:Any thoughts... no MPD installed ... if I did install it it would need to be immediately above the flue only leaving about 12 inches from the baro.
Put in the MPD, it will help slow your stove down. The location will be fine.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: corey On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:38 pm

Have you sealed the leaks??
corey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: USS Ashley coal stove
Coal Size/Type: Eastern KY bituminous


Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: coalturkey On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:45 pm

There should be no question in anybody's mind. A manual damper is an absolute must on this stove. It is not airtight and won't ever be. As far as barometric dampers and manometers go, well maybe, but a manual damper is a must.
coalturkey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Oakland #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: blaschek nut
Other Heating: Home Comfort range
Stove/Furnace Make: Oakland #6 Base Heater
Stove/Furnace Model: Home Comfort range

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: corey On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:55 pm

coalturkey wrote:There should be no question in anybody's mind. A manual damper is an absolute must on this stove. It is not airtight and won't ever be. As far as barometric dampers and manometers go, well maybe, but a manual damper is a must.

Here did say he had some major gaps i remember.
corey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: USS Ashley coal stove
Coal Size/Type: Eastern KY bituminous

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:05 pm

Update on todays burn.. gaps sealed.. MPD installed. The stove is completely closed up MPD completely closed and Baro wide open. Stove does well for a while but when the coal is at peak burn stove temps get up to 600- 650 so far. I have only been adding 20 lbs at a time..

Loaded 20 lbs at 1000
20# more at 1130
final 20 at 1300 -- did fine until it was at peak burn now it is up to 600.

Not really sure how to put the brakes on this thing any more. I do not have the fan in back installed maybe that will help.

I am concerned to dump 60 # of fresh coal as I fear that when all of that gets going at once might be unstoppable.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:42 pm

You should be afraid. You need a MPD.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:49 pm

Have you done the dollar bill test on the ash door? Warm Morning stoves should be airtight.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:09 pm

AlaskaCoal1 wrote:Update on todays burn.. gaps sealed.. MPD installed. The stove is completely closed up MPD completely closed and Baro wide open. Stove does well for a while but when the coal is at peak burn stove temps get up to 600- 650 so far. I have only been adding 20 lbs at a time..

Loaded 20 lbs at 1000
20# more at 1130
final 20 at 1300 -- did fine until it was at peak burn now it is up to 600.

Not really sure how to put the brakes on this thing any more. I do not have the fan in back installed maybe that will help.

I am concerned to dump 60 # of fresh coal as I fear that when all of that gets going at once might be unstoppable.


i see you have both the MPD and the Baro. installed. that's good.

the fan will not help the current situation just move the heat further from the unit, which might be a help IF you are crowding the clearances.

under no circumstances should you put more than 20 #'s in that stove for safety.

there really is only one path to resolution. put it out, take every bit of the outer cabinet off and away from the inner stove proper,take all the bricks out and find the holes in the barrel under the grates.

unfortunately this should have been done in the inspection process before purchase but it's a labor intensive project and many sellers and buyers want to skip it and hope for the best. that said you still have a fine chance of righting the problem and enjoying a fine stove.

in my opinion ALL cabinet stoves of this type and style should be fully dismantled in this way. there is just too much hidden area to ignore. i have looked at a dozen of these stoves ( 500, 460 and 400's ) and every single one of them where ate up to some degree and most needed a new barrel to be considered safe for anything beyond burning trash outside.

good luck,
steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:15 pm

KingCoal wrote:
AlaskaCoal1 wrote:Update on todays burn.. gaps sealed.. MPD installed. The stove is completely closed up MPD completely closed and Baro wide open. Stove does well for a while but when the coal is at peak burn stove temps get up to 600- 650 so far. I have only been adding 20 lbs at a time..

Loaded 20 lbs at 1000
20# more at 1130
final 20 at 1300 -- did fine until it was at peak burn now it is up to 600.

Not really sure how to put the brakes on this thing any more. I do not have the fan in back installed maybe that will help.

I am concerned to dump 60 # of fresh coal as I fear that when all of that gets going at once might be unstoppable.


i see you have both the MPD and the Baro. installed. that's good.

the fan will not help the current situation just move the heat further from the unit, which might be a help IF you are crowding the clearances.

under no circumstances should you put more than 20 #'s in that stove for safety.

there really is only one path to resolution. put it out, take every bit of the outer cabinet off and away from the inner stove proper,take all the bricks out and find the holes in the barrel under the grates.

unfortunately this should have been done in the inspection process before purchase but it's a labor intensive project and many sellers and buyers want to skip it and hope for the best. that said you still have a fine chance of righting the problem and enjoying a fine stove.

in my opinion ALL cabinet stoves of this type and style should be fully dismantled in this way. there is just too much hidden area to ignore. i have looked at a dozen of these stoves ( 500, 460 and 400's ) and every single one of them where ate up to some degree and most needed a new barrel to be considered safe for anything beyond burning trash outside.

good luck,
steve

Dammit, I did it again. I gotta look closer when I've got my 2 year old grandson on my lap while I'm reading this stuff. :oops: Sorry, guys.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace