"New" Warm Morning 500

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:03 pm

Steve:

So the 20# limit is because it spiking or even once it stops spiking then it can be filled up. This stove will hold easily 70#s. As far as inspection I have been through it pretty close. Removed the sides dropped a light down in a completely dark room.. I filled and patched all the holes ... BUT did not remove the grate holder. I have also run the stove while it is completely dark and have not seen any light from the fire other than what I have patched. I will take a look again and will look at removing the grate.

Next summer I plan to have another barrel or trash can built ... should be simple for a welding shop to build.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Looking for a New Unit (Hitzer or Harman)


Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:32 am

it seems there is unknown under fire air getting in there from somewhere BUT,

you may be using a particularly vol. coal ?

if you can stay with it long enough to go thru each flare process to get 60 or so pounds in it maybe you be ok.

i guess i'm stumped at this point.

steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:52 pm

do a smoke test...
Smudge or incense...
Calm room and let the smoke be your guide...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:35 am

CC

Planning on doing just that... bad thing is I forgot the incense sticks when I was in town... normally no big deal but with the drive it makes it a BIG deal. I just hooked up my manometer to my indoor Harmon TLC. at idle (fire burning since 300 PM) -6 outside my draft was .06.... seemed kinda high for this portion of the burn cycle and I would imagine that the shop stove is going to be off the charts... Probably will install a MPD in the house as not really wanting a Baro in the house due to puff backs.

Going to do some research here but I drilled the hole about 6 inches up from the flue... sound OK?
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Looking for a New Unit (Hitzer or Harman)

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: McGiever On: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:24 am

I may be way off base here, but can this stove be relocated/moved and then add extra stove pipe in a fashion to add flow resistance and allow heat to disapate enroute...or maybe just add sorta like a bypass and split back pipe?

Don't fight the strong draft...use it as an advantage. :idea:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:54 am

Get a sage smudge like they use for blessing or clearing a house...
Better smoke...
Just want the MPD in a place your hand won't get too hot... ;)
Extra pipe extra heat...
Make sure it is screwed together...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:56 am

McGeiver:

Might be on to something there. This stove is set up to come out the back and go straight up. I could move it to the side and then come out of the stove go up elbow to the left for about 6-8 feet max the elbow again to go up and out. I think this is what your talking about to increase resistance thereby decreasing draft. That along with the Baro should help.

Ok what are the cons here-- with coal only thing I can see is the fly ash build up in the horizontal section. Any suggestions on the length of the horizontal piece easiest to move it in increments of 2 feet since that is the majority of the pipe available at the local hardware store.

Love this forum ... here I was overthinking things again.. as my Dad use to say... " your pulling the motor before checking the spark plugs"
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Looking for a New Unit (Hitzer or Harman)

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:02 pm

put 90* degree elbow in the stove exhaust flange, turned so that it is at a 45* angle toward the ceiling. put on 3- 2' sections of pipe and another 90 with the opening facing back ( away from the stove ). add a 3rd 90* elbow turned 45*'s so that the opening is pointing straight up and attach to existing flue.

those 3 90's will be about all the restriction you can get easily, the extra 6 ft. of pipe will radiate extra heat.

if you want to get real serious, put a "T" in the stove flange with the openings going both right and left. put 90's in both the openings, put 2' sections of pipe in those elbows going up, cap the pipes with 2 more 90's with another "T" in between with the opening facing up. connect to existing flue. put an Mpd in the "T" at the stove flange and another in the "T" at the top. if it's too tall make the pipes 1 ft. instead of 2 ft.

more restriction and alittle more radiant surface.
Last edited by KingCoal on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none


Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:30 pm

I've been searching all day, and finally I got hold of Randy to get a picture of this for you. Rosemont Radiator, you could build one very easily with pipe and T's

Geneva Andes 517 w/ double heater feature stove restoration
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Thanks SWPaDon... interesting thread on stove restoration and the Rosemont design is an option.

UPDATE: I ran the stove last night with the new manometer hooked up and was somewhat surprised. Bottom line it appears that the draft is not a problem but only 20# was used for the test. Here are the draft readings

While starting the stove -- only 20# of Coal
Bottom air open slightly
.06 -.07 -- MPD wide open Baro in operation
.14 -.17 -- MPD wide open with Baro held shut
Stack temps 275-325 based on magnetic thermometer

Once the stove was up and running / volatiles burned off / all coal up and at peak of burn
Bottom air completely closed
.04-.05 -- MPD wide open with Baro wide open
.05 -- MPD closed with Baro wide open--- this was interesting that MPD did not affect it much
.1 -- MPD closed and Baro held closed
Stack temps were running 600

Did not check the stove during the late part of the burn... fell asleep. :D

Hence the correct draft does not seem to lower the temps to 300- 400 as thought-- I did not hold it with higher draft for long so I can not attest to higher stack temps with higher draft but would thing that would
have occurred.

I plan on running this test again tonight logging the draft and taking stack temps with IR thermometer to make sure the thermometer is not incorrect. Also going to add more coal to check temps and draft since want this stove to be able to handle larger amounts to decrease loading frequency.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Looking for a New Unit (Hitzer or Harman)

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:18 am

I agree with all on using the heat... but don't I need to control it somewhat? Even with the extended pipe or Rosemont... IF the pipe temps right out of the flue remain high I would think that is a problem? Bad thing is first indications is the draft is not to High like i thought it would be. More testing is needed but with the open flue and no baffle the flames I believe are just licking the pipe increasing temps... just wondering how the original OP of this thread got his temps to stay at 400 with the same stove?
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Looking for a New Unit (Hitzer or Harman)

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:59 am

AlaskaCoal1 wrote:I agree with all on using the heat... but don't I need to control it somewhat? Even with the extended pipe or Rosemont... IF the pipe temps right out of the flue remain high I would think that is a problem? Bad thing is first indications is the draft is not to High like i thought it would be. More testing is needed but with the open flue and no baffle the flames I believe are just licking the pipe increasing temps... just wondering how the original OP of this thread got his temps to stay at 400 with the same stove?

He didn't say what he was using to check flue temps. There have been reports on here of the 'magnetic' ones being as much as 200 degrees off between units.

As Berlin stated, use little to no underfire air, and more overfire air to control the burn better. That should lower your flue temps.

If you make something like the rosemont, it should cut your draft down. That in turn should keep the flames from going so far up into your flue, but I don't think you will stop it completely, due to the way the stove is designed with the chimney bricks.

As far as the 'rosemont' type radiator, all you need is 4 -T's, 4- straight pieces, 2- MPD's, 2-end caps, enough pipe to connect it to your stove, and enough pipe to go to your chimney. Put two T's together with a MPD between them (that's the top), put two straight's together twice, hook to the T's and go down towards the floor, hook two more T's together, and hook those to the pipes coming down to form the bottom. The endcaps go on both T's to serve as cleanouts. When you turn the MPD that's in between the T's, you will have either a straight shot to the chimney, or the gases will flow down the one pipe and up the other. I would mount your Baromeric damper between the Rosemont and the chimney so as to keep the heated flue gases in your pipe longer.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:16 pm

merry christmas .. hope all are having a great day.

Update I tinkered with the stove last night and got out my IR thermometer to check the magnetic thermometer... it was running a bit high but by about 70 degrees. Rechecked al the seals and fired her up. with only 30# of coal i was blazing away again above 700 at the flue. This reading is about 3-4 inches above the breach where the stove pipe connects. just below the baro which is about 16-18 inches it is was running in the low 500 range... above the baro dropped off considerable to low 400s to high 200. the lowest reading was about 2 - 2.5 feet above the flue just before my double wall pipe. The draft was running .05-.06 constant with everything sheet down tight and baro wide open. with mpd wide open and holding baro closed i got up to .25 and might have been still slowly climbing The MPD does not affect the draft hardly any the manometer reads the same with mpd open or closed....05 - .06.

I have not hooked up the heat exchangers as of yet... my question is i think no matter what i will be in the 800+ range within that first few inches before the baro... that make anybody nervous???? :shock: Wish i had a way to baffle the stove that would keep heat in the stove and radiate but that not an option at the moment.

also just so you have all the data.. this is a new 8" chimney reduced down to 6" the last 3 feet with a 6" baro.

have a great day and happy holidays
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Looking for a New Unit (Hitzer or Harman)

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:47 pm

The only way to find out for sure what will happen is hook the heat exchanger up and take readings, until then it's just guesses. The reason I mentioned something like the 'rosmont' design, is because smokes natural direction is 'up'. The guys on here have shown thru their measurements that draft decreases whenever backpipes and baseburners are utilized, by forcing the flue gases to go down. And something along the lines of the 'rosemont', can be added to very quickly and easily if one feels there is a need for more draft reduction.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: "New" Warm Morning 500

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:59 pm

Thanks SWP... I am going to give it a try for sure. I just got focused on the high temps at the flue and was concerned about that more than anything.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Looking for a New Unit (Hitzer or Harman)