"New" Warm Morning 500

Finally made it up to Lebanon Junction to check out a Model 500 I found on Craigslist. Although it lacks a bi-metal thermostat like a 400, and I'm afraid I won't be fully satisfied until I find a 400, it was just entirely too nice to pass up. It has a couple of dings in the cabinet but nothing terribly ugly and I'm going for function over form anyway. Here I 'm unloading from the suburban onto my ATV trailer:



While filthy, I cleaned enough up to tell the cabinet will look good (Okay, as good as it can look) once cleaned up:



But more important than the cabinet is that the works are in great shape. There's a few easily cemented cracks in the flat fire brick in the back but all 4 corner chimneys are perfect and show very little use:



And the grate appears to be perfect without even any serious pitting just some surface rust, that's a fruit jar lid and other trash I hadn't cleaned out yet:



The ash tray is present and sound, although I may have another made while I'm getting it ready to use and I still have a good pattern:



I am however missing the shaker handle assuming it isn't buried in the ash in the ash pan compartment and the "M" is broken off the namplate. It's an 80 lb stove and I hope that's enough until I can find a good 400. It's a big rascal, stands 42" high, 28" wide and about 24" deep. And heavy, I've always taken the stove out for the summer. That may change with this unit!

Can you retrofit the bimetal damper from a 400 to the 500??

That stove is in very nice condition, it was a good purchase. Waiting to hear your first burn report.


Greg L

Greg, I wondered about that too. A cursory examination of the ash pan revealed what I believe to be the opening for the air inlet on the left side. I plan to clean it up either this afternoon or tomorrow and see what I can learn. I hope someone with a 400 sees this and would be willing to post some photos of their bimetal and air inlet. I have a very unique Robertshaw self contained bimetal/flapper unit, all in one piece, but it's on a very good circulator that I really hate to tear up. I did make some calls last night putting feelers out for a trashed circulator in case I can use parts to upgrade this 500.

I'm not quite comfortable with the feed door latch and will modify it somewhat in the next couple of days. The base needs a little straightening, a new stove bolt and a coat of high temp paint. Otherwise it appears ready to run. I found two shaker handles from my father and/or grandfather hanging in the shop either one of which works great.

I'm going to check out a new coal source in Berea KY on Tuesday. If it works out, I'll post more info.

Stephen, great looking stove. I hope a retrofit works out for you regarding the bimetal dampner. Good luck with your new acquisition and keep us informed on you Tuesday coal hunt.

Well crap. Went to Samson's today to get a couple tons of lump and mentioned to Ernie I was looking for a Baro, we discussed that I needed a six inch, he went in the back room and scratched around coming out with a NOS, in the box, with instruction sheet, Fields RC. Allowed as how $20 sounded fair to him so I bought it. Get home and it's a seven inch. So, do I use a 6-7 adapter sticking out of my tee and keep it or order a new 6"?

BTW, the Berea KY source I mentioned above doesn't have scales. Sells it by the bobcat bucket at $60 per. That and the additional distance sent me back to Samson's in Owensboro and I'll just throw away a bunch of fines.

It should have come with a sheet metal collar that you mount to a straight piece of stove pipe to make your own tee. 7" baro is ok for 6" pipe per manufacturer.

http://www.fieldcontrols.com/rc.php

It does have the collar, but I just wanted to stick it in a tee and make the install easier. That & I'd like to be able to pull it and cap the tee in the spring and fall. I just found a six inch nearby after calling them to order it. Anyone want a 7" RC? $20 plus whatever shipping is. If not I'll stick on a shelf in the shop and forget I even have it.

Well, she's up and running. I've spent the morning running flue temps progressively up then down burning paint off the new pipe/BD tee. Currently have it loaded with half white ash and half bit lump. I've satisfied myself that I can control the fire well with the MPD and feed door damper. Behaves more like an airtight than I was actually expecting I'm pleased to say. I'm sending more heat up the chimney than I should so as the day progresses I'll uncover the BD and adjust it once I'm running fully on coal.

Good Lord. It's 77 back here with a window open 3". Three hours in and I already miss my bi-metal thermostat.

I'm going to pick up an incense stick to reach through the circulator slots and check for air leaks later, but, in the meantime what do ya'll think about a scuttle full of range size on top to slow her down a bit?

Well, I'm going to keep posting to myself in hopes someone will think of something I haven't or at least tell me I'm crazy.

1) There's absolutely no ash in the stove yet. Consequently there's nothing to slow the combustion air. The lump I loaded was literally laying there with 1" air passages through it. Once there's ash to slow the air, it should calm down?????

2) The scuttle of Range Size coal:



will slow things down a bit and be easier to control until I get some ash built up.

3) I can try closing the underfire air completely. I was able to nearly extinguish my wood fire earlier doing this which led me to believe there weren't any serious leaks I'd overlooked. With the overfire shut, I'm only running the underfire open a very little bit:



I even pulled the grate and dropped a trouble light down to the ash box searching for potential leaks during my inspection. I identified a couple small ones and cemented those up. Compressed air didn't blow ash out anywhere after that either.

The range size has helped slow it. The stack temp is running 200-250, the air out the top is down to 250 from 400+.

Any other suggestions?

Ash can be your friend. Letting some ash build up by not thoroughly shaking the grates can slow things down a lot. High stack temps. are typical for these stoves when burning soft coal but things will settle down when the volatile matter has burned off. Heat reclaimers work good with these stoves.
How much area are you heating with this stove?

That's what I keep telling myself: It will be better tonorrow when it's built some ash. I finally got disgusted and completely shut the underfire air and within an hour room temp was down by 2 degrees and stove top was down by 225. I almost let it stay shut too long as I was obviously losing my fire. Another test that tells me it's not an air leak, rather I just don't know how to run her yet. She's filled to the top of the firebrick and had run herself so fast that I had some bridging. I broke that up, it settled about 3 inches and it's running better now. I only have the underfire barely open, & I'm giving it a little overfire. However room temp is climbing...Dammit.

It's 34 outside, I wonder if I should run range instead of lump til the temps really drop?

ETA: About 2500 sq feet, well insulated and reasonably tight. The stove is in the living area (No basement) and I have a pretty darned effective loop established to ditribute heat.

you should be able to cut the heat quite a bit by closing down the underfire and opening the overfire air. If the stove is loaded to the top with fuel you shouldn't lose a fire, it should simply idle along. sometimes a baro and an mpd can complicate things (too many variables). You're better off setting the baro at -.04 to -.06, forgetting the mpd (it's a soot catcher and pipe clogger anyway) and then adjusting the over and underfire air. I've found (and this might not be true on all stoves and all conditions) that once a secondary air position is found, it really doesn't need to be ajusted again regardless of the underfire air setting. Primary is how you really control the heat of the fire - it determines the fuelbed temp and how fast the coal is shedding flammable gasses whether that be CO with anthracite or hydrocarbons with bit.

I would definitely try a smaller coal, but the ashes on the grate will do the most to slow the fire..

NOW don't complain.. once the temps reach the teens you will be GLAD you have a heater that just shruggs off the cold temps..

Take care, I still think you could call Hitzer and get one of their thermostatic controls, I think it mounts on the back side of the stove, has a hanging chain that is attached to an angled door on the air feed vent.. the chain lifts as the temp drops, opening the air vent, drops once the temp rises..

Can you attach a 2"x3" piece of pipe to the bottom of the stove's ashpan box? and rig up an attachement point for the bimetal thermostat and chain??

Just 'thinkin'

Greg L