More DVC stuff

More DVC stuff

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:29 pm

Building on albumnys agony...that damned thermistor.

Harman part number 3-20-11744
Replaces Harman part # 1-00-00744.
OEM Harman part.

The Harman dealer sold me a 744 that was just ratty bit of cable off a failed unit and clamped on a new thermistor with the number 060914. No problem but if he can do it so can I. Sorry no pics - camera died in Irene.

http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3643

So now we know what RTDs are and the question becomes is it a 100ohm or a 1000ohm. So old cable - dead short new cable 123ohms at RT on my ratty meter. In the fridge for 30minutes -about 100ohms and in the nozzle of a boiling kettle 213ohms. Looks like a 100ohmer. If you look at the diagram you can imagine if this goes to short circuit the current increases (see figure 3) - yep, I think I remember Ohms Law (my limit electrically). Old board no fuse, new board P38+ fuse that has blown and a trip to RadioJoke fixed that one.

So off to the mouser.com and Omega boards board and looking at thermistors probes (sorry RTDs) we find many things that look like the one to get.

So in it goes and as of one hour ago with the windowlaters working flat out (phew), I have my stove back.

So albumny according to your tech which one is it?

So I think pull the two lead RTD (you have to clean out the fines anyway), clean out the exhaust port and then replace. Test according to the above protocol and for my money, replace annually for about $20. No albumny you do no harm the stove by pulling the two lead RTD with the power on (stove cold of course) out of the exhaust port but don’t disconnect from the board but with a good heat source the auger should go on, then the dist. fans. Do all the other things as recommended and use a good surge detector (many posts advising this one). Now guys how can I get a cheap 060914?

PS- remember this is the old DVC. Look on the website of my previous posts to see if you qualify. If the lead is red instead of black it's all different. Of course the P38+ was so much trouble they canned that dog quickly. Harman is about to send me a rebate in the mail (and the moon is made of green cheese).
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: McGiever On: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:11 pm

Take your pick:

https://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/Temp ... reSensors/

S-18 looks good @ $31.00 or upgrade to S-11, Platinum RTD for an additional $21.00... :)

https://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/Temp ... S/Ordering

Or go to ebay and search for NTC thermistors @100 ohm or Pt RTD's @100 ohm.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:53 pm

I'll bet a million the replacement was not Pt. So they just made sure that it would fail quickly and another $1000 visit was born. All these tricks were learned at the GM factory in Detroit.

Thx, I will upgrade.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22


Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:27 am

I have been following this and I have a question. This is a coal stove right? I mean I would have chucked this thing a LONG time ago.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, using a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly stove in the church
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:36 am

No birman, its a pellet stove that is put on this board as many parts are the same as the DVC. I have made many mistakes in autos, women and now stoves. What can I tell you? It only heats a very small area in a barn and like my GM cars of old I think - just one more year. I threw the women and the cars out and went for a serious upgrade, my current wife and a Hyundai. Two out of three aint bad is it (as the song goes)?
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:13 am

OK, new day. The reason I am doing all this is I like the DVC as it was originally designed and wish to improve the reliability, you know like good American companies were supposed to function. It is getting dated by the coaltrol stoves but the direct concept means better air in the house. I hear the hydronics boys stirring here but no there are disadvantages with that approach also. As my Prof. used to say - Knowledge is Power! Of course, he died broke many years ago but that is another story.

I think the DVC can be made bulletproof BEFORE we buy my local dealer next years BMW. I would rather spend the money fixing my 50 year old broken tractor. So areas of discussion:

Are things made better replacing the Fasco motors with Papst and is it worth it? Fascos aren't bad and I keep spares from Patriot (Grainger whatever). However, wide availability of an item is a plus that should not be overlooked.

Can the infamous POTS so ably discussed by albumny be replaced easily?

Can we source that damned pressure switch generically and protect the main board? $400 for a pressure switch? Where is that in the catalog?

Can we design a bullet proof power supply and is it worth it? Surge protectors are good but we must be able to do better unless someone can direct me to the worlds best surge protector.

I would like to approach the reliability of the hand fed stoves with the ease of use and many other advantages of the DVC.

So you guys reading this on the Harman development team how about it? (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I slay myself). What do you mean you are designing a new DVC made to run on Chinese made elastic bands and guaranteed to break one microsecond after the warranty runs out. Put away that Detroit car development manual and join in (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I'm so funny).

Any interest in playing this game. The thermistor play was fun.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:55 am

coalnewbie wrote:OK, new day. The reason I am doing all this is I like the DVC as it was originally designed and wish to improve the reliability, you know like good American companies were supposed to function. It is getting dated by the coaltrol stoves but the direct concept means better air in the house. I hear the hydronics boys stirring here but no there are disadvantages with that approach also. As my Prof. used to say - Knowledge is Power! Of course, he died broke many years ago but that is another story.

I think the DVC can be made bulletproof BEFORE we buy my local dealer next years BMW. I would rather spend the money fixing my 50 year old broken tractor. So areas of discussion:

Are things made better replacing the Fasco motors with Papst and is it worth it? Fascos aren't bad and I keep spares from Patriot (Grainger whatever). However, wide availability of an item is a plus that should not be overlooked.

Look here...for previous discussion:
COMBUSTION blower replacement results for Channing III?

Can the infamous POTS so ably discussed by albumny be replaced easily?

I assume you mean with another better quality replacement?

Can we source that damned pressure switch generically and protect the main board? $400 for a pressure switch? Where is that in the catalog?

Yes, definitely, for way less cost.

Can we design a bullet proof power supply and is it worth it? Surge protectors are good but we must be able to do better unless someone can direct me to the worlds best surge protector.

Here is a good read about them:
http://www.nmsu.edu/safety/programs/gen ... t_info.htm

I would like to approach the reliability of the hand fed stoves with the ease of use and many other advantages of the DVC.

So you guys reading this on the Harman development team how about it? (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I slay myself). What do you mean you are designing a new DVC made to run on Chinese made elastic bands and guaranteed to break one microsecond after the warranty runs out. Put away that Detroit car development manual and join in (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I'm so funny).

Any interest in playing this game. The thermistor play was fun.


In the larger pellet stove market all of this would shatter the dealer service department's.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:11 pm

In the larger pellet stove market all of this would shatter the dealer service department's.


Oh, so you mean they would not have the money to buy new beamers at my expense and have to find gainful employment say like fixing broken down old tractors on horse farms in the freezing cold. Now imagine Detroit making cars properly? There would be less private yachts of car dealership chain owners in the Bahamas this year and war veterans in Freetown might actually be able to afford to keep themselves warm.

You are right, I've got to stop these stupid ideas. On a more serious note, thanks for that review on surge protectors.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:40 pm

OMG, that's what that whole rambling paragraph was about. Reviewing surge protectors? :P
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: ablumny On: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:30 pm

Well....

What to say! :D I've said it all on my long ranting post.......and I'm still not up and running

Thanks coalnewbie....I'm following you everything you've said!
ablumny
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman dvc500
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:48 pm

My friend, now you've got motivation. It's getting damn chilly up her & I'm sending some your way. An old Native American trick. You're doing fine my friend And I don't oft like to admit it, but coalnewbie has a grip on all that stuff. :D
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:45 am

and I'm still not up and running


Wait a minute here, I am sorry albumny, I thought your story ended (sadly) with a Harman tech visit on Dec 2, $1000+ in the hole and a promise never to buy Harman again but that you were warm and back on coal. You mean to say you are still still in the dark - geez. So what did the tech say? ThIs is creepily similar to my tale with my P38+. Different fuel, same cr appy engineering. Doesn't this board have a pact? No coal burner left behind. Fill in the dots on this tech visit, what actually got done and what got replaced? What are Harman doing about it? Give us year and SN on the stove. Fred, stop saying stupid things like he has motivation now. This man is as driven, smart and motivated as anybody else here.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:38 am

Here is a good read about them:

http://www.nmsu.edu/safety/programs/gen
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
... t_info.htm


So it's still all about MOVs that once whacked take time to recover or don't recover at all. I've had whole house surge protectors on my three buildings for years now. PC Power and Cooling Prosource 1500s on all really sensitive things. That limits my surge dramatically and controls voltage. Even 330V clamping is way too high.

All the house web sites talk about an electrician taking two hours to install. Buy one, you need a spare slot for both side of the 240V and read the instructions that even an electrician can follow.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: ablumny On: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:39 am

......I think I'll go back to my own thread now :lol: Seriously......this forum rocks and all commentary is welcome!
Anyway.....

The tech showed up a week ago. He was a nice guy who admitted his expertise was in pellet not coal stoves but of course the electronics are similar. I explained to him what I had already done and other then plugging his diagnostic tester into my board there wasn't more he could do. He said he'd take the readings back to Harman and let me know if anything was out of whack. He showed me that the two probes were registering. ...... He never called me back and I haven't had time to hunt him down.

Motivated? Actually I'm more motivated to replace this thing sooner then I was thinking!

Not wanting to hijack this thread so I'll keep mine on the subject updated when there's something to say.
http://nepacrossroads.com/about21985.html
ablumny
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman dvc500
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: More DVC stuff

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:42 am

I've never said anything stupid in my life--oh well, maybe a couple times ;) Ain't you grumpy at 4 AM. (re-read my post) ab, it's a shame that you are caught up in the middle of this HARMON crappy customer support situation :(
coalnewbie wrote:
and I'm still not up and running


Wait a minute here, I am sorry albumny, I thought your story ended (sadly) with a Harman tech visit on Dec 2, $1000+ in the hole and a promise never to buy Harman again but that you were warm and back on coal. You mean to say you are still still in the dark - geez. So what did the tech say? ThIs is creepily similar to my tale with my P38+. Different fuel, same cr appy engineering. Doesn't this board have a pact? No coal burner left behind. Fill in the dots on this tech visit, what actually got done and what got replaced? What are Harman doing about it? Give us year and SN on the stove. Fred, stop saying stupid things like he has motivation now. This man is as driven, smart and motivated as anybody else here.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix


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