Huge Puffback!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Sat. Dec. 17, 2011 11:18 am

Sorry I misspoke above, too many acronyms! I meant to say I never use one of those fancy barometric dampers. I always use an MPD and it is always fully open for a few minutes when I load and always fully closed when I am running steady state, which gives me an adequate draft. The exception might be on a warm day I will open it up part-way to insure draft.

freetown fred · Post by **freetown fred** » Sat. Dec. 17, 2011 11:58 am

Probably just my choice but, I personally would not use a solid MPD--I can't really remember ever seeing one, but with the slots in my MPD,(I also do not use a baro), it allows the bulk of what needs to exit through the pipe, do just that--EXIT--I know you said you open it, but you had to close it at some point. Yes, when you see the blue ladies, you should be good to close yours--BUT, I'm not familiar with your draft, etc.

Vinmaker · Post by **Vinmaker** » Sat. Dec. 17, 2011 12:12 pm

lobsterman wrote:Sorry I misspoke above, too many acronyms! I meant to say I never use one of those fancy barometric dampers. I always use an MPD and it is always fully open for a few minutes when I load and always fully closed when I am running steady state, which gives me an adequate draft. The exception might be on a warm day I will open it up part-way to insure draft.

I am with you Mr. Lobster.

DennisH · Post by **DennisH** » Sat. Dec. 17, 2011 1:03 pm

Rex wrote:I just had a large puffback this morning with our DS 1500. After about an hour after the shakedown and reloading the coal hopper, the unit huffed a deep low roar. Scared the dog enough to have him jump up and sprint away from the stove. The blue dancing flames appeared right after and slowly burned down.

Not sure what I could have done differently. Believe the rear air damper eventually opened up after the shakedown, igniting the gases then woof.. Maybe the shakedown allowed the coal to cover over the coal bed not allowing any exposed red coal. Sure got my attention!!

Suggestions?

I had something happen last weekend. I had just shaken down well, reloaded the coal bed, waited for the blue ladies to dance, and then proceeded to remove the ash pan and replace it with an empty one. I have two ash pans, so that when I shake down, I can put the "old" one aside to cool before I dump it in a galvanized steel (tr)ash can. For the minute or so that there was no ash pan under the fire (and the firebox door was closed) I heard what I can best describe as a loud "growling" or rumbling, but it wasn't in the furnace per se. It sounded to me to be somewhere upstairs in the house, in the duct work perhaps. That "growling" made the dogs start barking too. I heard the noise but didn't think anything of it until I put the new (empty) ash pan in, and it stopped. Hmmmmmmmmm. What's this all about? Pulled the ash pan open again, growling resumes, but again, it didn't sound like it was coming from actual furnace itself. Pan in - growling stopped. Third time I did it the growling stopped. Sure has me stumped. Blower motor was running fine, which is what I thought it might be. No "explosion" of any kind, no bang or pop, just a low frequency rumble or growl. Relatively new house - don't think I have any Poltergeists in it, yet!!

freetown fred · Post by **freetown fred** » Sat. Dec. 17, 2011 1:13 pm

Sorry, but apparently you do!

wsherrick · Post by **wsherrick** » Sat. Dec. 17, 2011 2:07 pm

lobsterman wrote:Sorry I misspoke above, too many acronyms! I meant to say I never use one of those fancy barometric dampers. I always use an MPD and it is always fully open for a few minutes when I load and always fully closed when I am running steady state, which gives me an adequate draft. The exception might be on a warm day I will open it up part-way to insure draft.

A Barometric Damper is a NO NO with a base heater anyway. You will do nothing but lower the performance of the stove if you install one. A standard pipe damper is all that is needed. Base Heaters remove so much heat from the exhaust that your stack temperatures are way, way lower than average, a barometric damper admitting cool air to an already cool exhaust will kill or greatly lessen the required draft.

Smokeyja · Post by **Smokeyja** » Sat. Dec. 17, 2011 4:59 pm

I have read a few explosion or "puff/poof" stories on here now and this seems to be the biggest. I have not experienced this in the little over a month I've been burning coal but it seems to me that the way the Warm mornings are designed , with the 4 flues in the fire brick, that a mini explosion wouldn't ever be possible in the WM as long as the flues stay clear, considering they are designed to burn the volitiles off quickly. Am I right in this thought?

wsherrick · Post by **wsherrick** » Sat. Dec. 17, 2011 11:29 pm

Smokeyja wrote:I have read a few explosion or "puff/poof" stories on here now and this seems to be the biggest. I have not experienced this in the little over a month I've been burning coal but it seems to me that the way the Warm mornings are designed , with the 4 flues in the fire brick, that a mini explosion wouldn't ever be possible in the WM as long as the flues stay clear, considering they are designed to burn the volitiles off quickly. Am I right in this thought?

You can make it back puff if you follow the, "I'm in a big hurry," formula. Just load up the stove, open the ash pit door, open the pipe damper all the way and let the fire catch real fast with the ash pit door open. Now, walk away to answer the phone, or get distracted for about 10 minutes or so, then; after the fire is starting to really burn, shut the ash pit door close off the primary damper to almost closed and close the pipe damper because the stove is now on the way to being too hot. Wait about 5 minutes and enjoy your massive back puff. Works every time its tried.

SteveZee · Post by **SteveZee** » Sun. Dec. 18, 2011 8:29 am

wsherrick wrote:
Smokeyja wrote:I have read a few explosion or "puff/poof" stories on here now and this seems to be the biggest. I have not experienced this in the little over a month I've been burning coal but it seems to me that the way the Warm mornings are designed , with the 4 flues in the fire brick, that a mini explosion wouldn't ever be possible in the WM as long as the flues stay clear, considering they are designed to burn the volitiles off quickly. Am I right in this thought?
You can make it back puff if you follow the, "I'm in a big hurry," formula. Just load up the stove, open the ash pit door, open the pipe damper all the way and let the fire catch real fast with the ash pit door open. Now, walk away to answer the phone, or get distracted for about 10 minutes or so, then; after the fire is starting to really burn, shut the ash pit door close off the primary damper to almost closed and close the pipe damper because the stove is now on the way to being too hot. Wait about 5 minutes and enjoy your massive back puff. Works every time its tried.

That is just about the exact formula Will! I won't ask how you know that!

Year's of experiance. It is tempting to just that though. I always leave the MPD open for a little extra time after I close down.

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Sun. Dec. 18, 2011 8:51 am

Smokeyja wrote:I have read a few explosion or "puff/poof" stories on here now and this seems to be the biggest. ....

I seem to recall someone once mentioning on the forum that a puff-back blew the chimney clean off their house and it landed on their truck.

saragnac · Post by **saragnac** » Sun. Dec. 18, 2011 9:44 am

I was getting small puff backs on a regular basis and could even almost predict them. I posted about it and got lots of responses and realized that they can almost always be prevented. Fortunately, I run a TLC-2000 which has two dampers above the flame for when burning wood. When I load her up and can tell there is a very good chance of a puff back, I just open them up about half way and wait for the blue ladies before closing them back up. In my novice train of thought I think the upper air dampers are either venting the volatiles or allowing enough air to mix in to prevent the puff backs.

SteveZee · Post by **SteveZee** » Sun. Dec. 18, 2011 11:46 am

saragnac wrote:I was getting small puff backs on a regular basis and could even almost predict them. I posted about it and got lots of responses and realized that they can almost always be prevented. Fortunately, I run a TLC-2000 which has two dampers above the flame for when burning wood. When I load her up and can tell there is a very good chance of a puff back, I just open them up about half way and wait for the blue ladies before closing them back up. In my novice train of thought I think the upper air dampers are either venting the volatiles or allowing enough air to mix in to prevent the puff backs.

That's just right Saragnac. I too leave the MPD open a hair longer after clsoing down to the damper setting I'm going to run with. 10-15 min later, when I got blue, I close the MPD. No probs. I have secondary air though too, so opening those gives me blue flames allot faster than if I didn't.

buck24 · Post by **buck24** » Sun. Dec. 18, 2011 1:18 pm

Puffbacks also happen with Warm Morning stoves. I burned the 523-R for many years and had a few good puffbacks. They always seemed to take place when I was in a bit of a hurry like William stated. I also made sure the the corner flues were open by running a wire through them periodically. When the conditions are there she will pop. Scares the heck out of you when your not expecting it.

ValterBorges · Post by **ValterBorges** » Sun. Dec. 18, 2011 5:07 pm

buck24 wrote:Puffbacks also happen with Warm Morning stoves. I burned the 523-R for many years and had a few good puffbacks. They always seemed to take place when I was in a bit of a hurry like William stated. I also made sure the the corner flues were open by running a wire through them periodically. When the conditions are there she will pop. Scares the heck out of you when your not expecting it.

I think they will happen with any top fed model just by doing as william stated.

Smokeyja · Post by **Smokeyja** » Sat. Dec. 24, 2011 6:39 pm

I just loaded the first bit of the bituminous coal I bought today to try out and I just got my first "PUFF BACK" I had the top damper slightly open and the MPD was fully open as I was letting this stuff fire up and PUFF , the stove shoots out black smoke out into the living room and it didn't smell too nice either. This is good bit from WV from what the seller has told me.
**Broken Link(s) Removed** It seems like pretty good stuff so far and maybe I just don't have enough experience with it but it seems to be very hard to rangle if you ask me. With Anthracite I have it down pat and can control my temps easy with the dampers. But with this bit I am having one heck of a time getting a steady burn. it seems to burn way too hot! maybe I just need some more time with it. I definatly don't like the puff back though !