How to dump heat with df 520

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: vermontday On: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:02 pm

Great thread, I've learned alot. Question though, is the outfire timer needed at all in the winter? I installed a switch on it to shut it off for the winter, but have never had the nerve to try it.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:41 pm

It depends on your draft. Mine seems to run fine in cold weather with no timer. One time I shut the stoker off to oil it and forgot it off while I was at work. I discovered my error 9 hours later and it was able to start back up. I don't think it would have lasted much longer though, it took quite a while to build a decent fire.

Currently I have the timer set for about 1 minute every 30. It skips timer cycles when a small zone calls for heat and the boiler temp reaches the high limit, but that has never caused a problem.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: vermontday On: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:55 pm

Some day when I have some extra time I will wire in a Logo programmable relay I have to be a repeat cycle timer that will reset to 0 every time the stoker turns on for longer than 2 minutes during 1 hour intervals.

That would not only save running the stoker when not necessary, but also reduce outfires in the summer.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:45 pm

vermontday wrote:Some day when I have some extra time I will wire in a Logo programmable relay I have to be a repeat cycle timer that will reset to 0 every time the stoker turns on for longer than 2 minutes during 1 hour intervals.

That would not only save running the stoker when not necessary, but also reduce outfires in the summer.
Do you have any more info on the Logo programmable relay, is it used in conjunction with a mechanical timer, or will it do all functions of the timer ???
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: cardinal On: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:44 pm

Thanks for all the input.I do have a mixing valve for that zone and I do have a bypass installed between the supply and return header?
It takes 2-½ -3hours steady burn on 3 teeth to heat up 1600 sq foot concrete slap at 120 water temp.(holds heat for 9 hours)
At this rate I’m worried about the auger pipe getting hot I don’t know what is normal temp for auger pipe. Can’t touch it with bare hand within 1 foot of stove . I do know at 4 teeth it cools down a lot. Maybe I will turn aqua stat down a bit? Say 140 - 180 as Mark suggested. I also will try as per Wood’ncoal (from Coal Berner) run the boiler on the timer for 4 minutes every hour as opposed to 2 minutes every 1/2 hour.or as Rob said try 1 minute every 30 .What should diff setting be at 180--140 should I keep it at 10?
cardinal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: stoker-man On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:07 am

You should be able to rest your hand on the pipe, at least momentarily. You're going to have to experiment more with the air settings.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:10 am

I just realized that you only mentioned skipped timer cycles. Have you actually had an outfire?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: vermontday On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:13 am

Per above AA130Firemans question; That would not only save running the stoker when not necessary, but also reduce outfires in the summer. Do you have any more info on the Logo programmable relay, is it used in conjunction with a mechanical timer, or will it do all functions of the timer ???

It is a Siemens Logo 230RC 6ED10521FB00-0BA4. It costs approx. $150. It will take the place of the Wilburt timer. It has multiple timers and counters and takes up to 8 inputs and has 4 relay outputs. It also has a small display screen. The unit is very small, only 3" x 3-1/2".

It would time the for the outfire stoker run, but if the stoker is called on by a thermostat, it would reset it to 0 and not do an outfire stoker run for that hour.

I also plan on having it do an overall running counter and a resettable counter that would keep track of stoker run times.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:31 am

Thanks vermontday, I'll look into that one. I just finished my generator install with a manual transfer switch, would that work for a generator off of 12 volt for an automatic transfer switch ? The problem is it's a diesel, and it takes 1 minute to start when cold, 5 wires to start, 1 is ground, 2 stops the generator, 3 start, 4 or H is the glow plug, and 5 or B+ is for some type of battery charging system. I spoke to a rep from Onan/Cummings and he couldn't tell me of an auto transfer switch to do the task
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: Phil May On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:33 am

I am not clear on your question. Also what do you have for a generator. Most generators only use a dry contact in the transfer switch to start. The rest of the circuits are usually in the generator controls. Some of the newer commercial units have remote annunciators both in the transfer switch and separately that require extra wiring.
Phil May
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 700
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 700

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:32 am

Phil May wrote:I am not clear on your question. Also what do you have for a generator. Most generators only use a dry contact in the transfer switch to start. The rest of the circuits are usually in the generator controls. Some of the newer commercial units have remote annunciators both in the transfer switch and separately that require extra wiring.
12volt from gen. #1 is ground, the rest are 12 volt. #1 to #2 is stop, #1 to #3 is start, #1 to H is the preheat glow plug (30 seconds to 1 minute ) and the B+ wire is some sort of battery charge signal. I ran the wires inside to hook up toggle switches, but is their a good time delay relay that could be used for an automatic transfer switch, the ones on the transfer switch start the gen set right away, I would need a minute to preheat, then start.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:43 pm

Sorry...reply was off topic :oops:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: cardinal On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:58 pm

Rob : I just had skipped timer cycle no out fire .I’m worried about the auger pipe getting hot on 3 teeth 3-1/4 air @ 2-1/2 to 3 hour burn time. I don’t know what is normal temp for auger pipe. Can’t touch it with bare hand within 1 foot of stove inlet. I know at 4 teeth it cools down . That's why I like 4 teeth the auger pipe doesn’t get hot. How many missed cycles on avg. before out fire??
cardinal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:41 pm

Did you read this thread?

Pictures of a burned pipe and worm due to improper feed/air

The auger pipe should not be getting so hot that you cannot rest your hand on it. It doesn't matter how long the stoker is running for, when adjusted correctly the pipe should never get that hot. If it does then the fire is burning back into the base of the pot and into the feed pipe.

Set the feed at 4 teeth and adjust the air accordingly so you have the correct burn in the pot. From the EFM manual:
With a properly adjusted fire, there will be an ash ring approx- imately 2” wide around the outside of the burner ring with a small dark circle in the cen- ter of the pot. This is the fresh coal entering into the bottom center of the pot. With too much air, the fire bed will tend to develop cracks, the ashes will clinker and the dark spot at the center of the fire will disappear. With too little air, the ash ring will be very small, hot and dark, falling off the burner ring into the ash pit and the dark spot at the center of the fire will be large.


Also I haven't seen any mention of the draft readings.
From the EFM manual:
2. A good draft is essential for proper operation of the stoker. This draft is created by the chim- ney when it reaches operating temperature. The draft should be checked with a draft gauge at the stack. The gauge is inserted into a 1⁄4” hole, drilled into the stack at a point within 12” of the boiler base outlet and before the barometric draft control. The draft at the stack should be negative .04 to negative .05 inches of water column. The over-the-fire draft is checked at the 1⁄4” diameter hole drilled into the fire door and should be neg- ative .02 inches of water column. Adjust the barometric draft control to attain these settings.

Be sure your draft is running at the correct settings. I have a manometer (draft gauge) permanently installed on my EFM, I check the draft reading every day.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: How to dump heat with df 520

PostBy: Mark (PA) On: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:45 pm

Card

You HAVE to adjust your Air up some if the feed tube is too hot to touch.

My tube basically right out of the cleanout box is only warm to slightly more than warm. Certainly no issue on putting my hand on it.

If your tube is that hot it can start a fire that will work its way back into your hopper or coal bin and that is a HUGE issue.

OK... wood beat me to this point... Sorry
Mark (PA)
 
Stove/Furnace Make: 1953 EFM SF-520 High Boy
Stove/Furnace Model: Fitzgibbon Boiler