LL110 coal usage

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:40 pm

plumber wrote:Not getting unburned coal in the ashes. Although, I'm wondering if the high consumption on warmer days have something to do with my dump zone? I just came from downstairs, and my dump zone radiator was cranking hot! I believe the worst part of the LL110 is its best part. It's too efficient.


This is as I had suspected. Coal must be burned whether it is for a useful purpose or not. What is your dump zones activation temperature set at? I upped mine to 210 degrees and this has helped.

The most unusual part is that you are burning more coal on warm days than on cold days.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:11 pm

plumber wrote:Not getting unburned coal in the ashes. Although, I'm wondering if the high consumption on warmer days have something to do with my dump zone? I just came from downstairs, and my dump zone radiator was cranking hot! I believe the worst part of the LL110 is its best part. It's too efficient.


It sounds like excessive dump zone cycles are increasing your coal consumption. Do you have your LL boiler tied in with another boiler or is it a stand-alone install?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:24 pm

It's stand alone. I've been in my basement most of the day today and the dump zone keeps tripping. It's only 20 outside, so it's not because it's warm. I'm concerned about how it's going to act in the spring and summer
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

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Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:37 pm

I wonder if part of the problem is stratification...it is possible that the water at the very top of your boiler is hotter than the rest and unnecessarily activating the dump zone.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:51 pm

I thought that myself. There is a some going on naturally, but only 10 degrees top to bottom.
The boiler has never seen its low limit, and idle satisfies my DHW load. It just makes a lot of heat at idle.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:03 pm

I believe the worst part of the LL110 is its best part. It's too efficient.


I know exactly what you mean my AnthraKing 110K (the hot air equivalent) is just stunningly efficient. Your comments may move me to hydronics for next seasons project. Go Dave and Matt. I can deal with too efficient.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
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Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: kstills On: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:49 pm

It's been very warm this year in SE PA, but that being said, I've burned ~2 tons since October in my 110k.

I burned 800lbs in October, but quite a lot of that was wasted because I was trying to get the boiler running, and had a lot of out fires, dump zones running constantly, too much heat etc.

I bought 2.25 tons on November 9th, and to date I've used about 1.5 tons of that. Last year I made it through a very cold winter using only ~400gallons of oil (house was 50f :shock: ) and electric heaters for supplemental heat.

This year, the downstairs is a constant 66 degf, the reason being that A) that's where the Tstat is, and 2) if I turn up the temp the upstairs goes over 76 degrees.

Haven't quite got that 'balancing issue' worked out with the radiators just yet.

I'm on pace to burn quite a bit less than I expected, which was ~5 tons. Of course, like I said the weather down here is abnormally warm for January (not that I'm complaining) so that's helping quite a bit. I am taking another 1.75 tons next week, and if the weather holds I expect that will take me into April.

Which is when I start tearing out the old pipes and starting over. :)
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:07 pm

kstills wrote:2) if I turn up the temp the upstairs goes over 76 degrees.

Haven't quite got that 'balancing issue' worked out with the radiators just yet.


That is quite a difference in temperature between the two floors. Do you have functional valves on the upstairs radiators?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: kstills On: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:29 pm

Rob R. wrote:
kstills wrote:2) if I turn up the temp the upstairs goes over 76 degrees.

Haven't quite got that 'balancing issue' worked out with the radiators just yet.


That is quite a difference in temperature between the two floors. Do you have functional valves on the upstairs radiators?


Well, that would be a solution, wouldn't it? :D

I have three radiators upstairs that I can't shut off. And the vagaries of the way the water flows through the system are such that those three radiators tend to get the heat early and often. I literally will run the boiler for an hour before the downstairs radiators start to heat up, unless I run the living room ones (which I don't, longer story).

This spring it's a complete do-over for the piping. I've ordered all the books that Sting recommended, so I'll be a dangerous man come April. 8-)
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:48 pm

I guess it was a silly question, if the valves were functional you would have tightened them down by now.

kstills wrote:This spring it's a complete do-over for the piping. I've ordered all the books that Sting recommended, so I'll be a dangerous man come April.


Dangerous and cold! I'd wait until May to break out the Sawzall.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: kstills On: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:07 pm

Rob R. wrote:I guess it was a silly question, if the valves were functional you would have tightened them down by now.

kstills wrote:This spring it's a complete do-over for the piping. I've ordered all the books that Sting recommended, so I'll be a dangerous man come April.


Dangerous and cold! I'd wait until May to break out the Sawzall.


Middle of April down here is usually in the 60's, last year being an exception. :)

The pipes aren't looped, there's an out and back for each side of the house. I'm going to cut and cap the one side, leaving the boiler available for the other if needed. Once I finish one side, I'll be well into May (no need to rush these things) and then I'll have all summer to hook in the new controls.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: jeff216410 On: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:48 am

I read this section and had a similar issue and the problem was with my dump zone. My dump zone kicks in somewhere around 205ish and when the boiler comes back to life it was at 145 which was below my 160 low limit, and then the boiler kicked back in to at least meet the low limit. I lowered my low limit, because it never really sits at the low limit this time of year. I was stuck in a loop of the dump zone running and then the boiler trying to get back to the low limit. I shortened the dump zone on time and lowered the low limit. Also, my idle settings are alarmingly low I think. The coal feed knob I have at the minimum and the fan is less that half. My "on" burn time I have set for a little less than a minute. Off time I think I have set at 12 minutes. Seems like I'm not using the dump zone much at all now and coal use went down.
jeff216410
 
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Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: kstills On: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:06 pm

jeff216410 wrote:I read this section and had a similar issue and the problem was with my dump zone. My dump zone kicks in somewhere around 205ish and when the boiler comes back to life it was at 145 which was below my 160 low limit, and then the boiler kicked back in to at least meet the low limit. I lowered my low limit, because it never really sits at the low limit this time of year. I was stuck in a loop of the dump zone running and then the boiler trying to get back to the low limit. I shortened the dump zone on time and lowered the low limit. Also, my idle settings are alarmingly low I think. The coal feed knob I have at the minimum and the fan is less that half. My "on" burn time I have set for a little less than a minute. Off time I think I have set at 12 minutes. Seems like I'm not using the dump zone much at all now and coal use went down.


Interesting.

I'll give these settings a try this weekend (though it will be colder) and see how it goes.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: beatle78 On: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:35 pm

jeff216410 wrote:I read this section and had a similar issue and the problem was with my dump zone. My dump zone kicks in somewhere around 205ish and when the boiler comes back to life it was at 145 which was below my 160 low limit, and then the boiler kicked back in to at least meet the low limit. I lowered my low limit, because it never really sits at the low limit this time of year. I was stuck in a loop of the dump zone running and then the boiler trying to get back to the low limit. I shortened the dump zone on time and lowered the low limit. Also, my idle settings are alarmingly low I think. The coal feed knob I have at the minimum and the fan is less that half. My "on" burn time I have set for a little less than a minute. Off time I think I have set at 12 minutes. Seems like I'm not using the dump zone much at all now and coal use went down.



Just keep in mind what works now may result in outfires when the weather gets warmer. I had my KA-4 dialed WAY down. Thought I had it nailed. Truth was that I had enough calls for heat to keep the coals going. As soon as we started having warm days the fire went out b/c the idle wasn't enough to keep the fire going for extended periods. I came home numerous time to have an ash bin full of coal! :mad:
beatle78
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker KA-4

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:17 pm

That time of year again!! Time for my rant on consumption.

One thing I have noticed, and I believe may be a culprit. The aquastat supplied with the boiler has protection feature that shuts off the circulator if the water temp goes below low limit. Not a great feature on a low mass boiler. I've observed my boiler today, and I have a zone that has been calling all morning. What is happening is the zone valve opens, and cold water goes to the boiler. This brings the boiler temperature below the low limit shutting off the circulator. Burner is on, running to make temperature, goes above low limit turns on circulator. Cold water again rushes into boiler, below low limit turns off circulator. The boiler has been running for the last 3 hours repeating this cycle. 3 hours of coal consumption with almost none of those BTU's going into the house. After an hour on the phone with Honeywell, there is no work around for this. I guess I either need to replace the aquastat, or get a zone control relay.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

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