LL110 coal usage

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:23 pm

The aquastat is working as designed...the circulator is disabled at the low limit setting to allow DHW production via the tankless coil.

These boilers should really have a bypass piped between the supply and return header, but no one seems to pipe them that way.

If you want to smooth things out a little, partially close a valve on the output side of the circulator so you aren't overwhelming the boiler with cold water.

Edit: You could run the circulator off a separate relay, but then you would be running the boiler at very low temperatures whenever the zone calls for heat (until the boiler recovers). A boiler bypass or primary/secondary piping is a better solution, in my opinion at least.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:31 pm

Right now I have my aquastat set at:
HL 190
LL 170
LLd 20

I bypassed the aquastat and powered the circ direct. It dropped down to 135 then climbed right up over 150 in less than 5 minutes, so a relay wouldn't be a problem. Another issue is where the return piping is, center of the boiler and not the bottom. When I get a few, I'm going to see if the drain is in a bushing, if that's at least 1 1/4" I'm repiping the return.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL110/165 Boiler

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:39 pm

As I recall, the drain was a 3/4" hole. Call Dave.....he will know for sure.
whistlenut
 
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Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:46 pm

Do you use the tankless coil? If not, set the low limit at 140.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:48 pm

whistlenut wrote:As I recall, the drain was a 3/4" hole. Call Dave.....he will know for sure.


Just checked, its a 1"x 3/4" bushing.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL110/165 Boiler

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:49 pm

Rob R. wrote:Do you use the tankless coil? If not, set the low limit at 140.


Yeah, I'm using the coil for now. If I had an indirect I'd set the low WAY down.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL110/165 Boiler

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: Matthaus On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:54 am

plumber wrote:That time of year again!! Time for my rant on consumption.

One thing I have noticed, and I believe may be a culprit. The aquastat supplied with the boiler has protection feature that shuts off the circulator if the water temp goes below low limit. Not a great feature on a low mass boiler. I've observed my boiler today, and I have a zone that has been calling all morning. What is happening is the zone valve opens, and cold water goes to the boiler. This brings the boiler temperature below the low limit shutting off the circulator. Burner is on, running to make temperature, goes above low limit turns on circulator. Cold water again rushes into boiler, below low limit turns off circulator. The boiler has been running for the last 3 hours repeating this cycle. 3 hours of coal consumption with almost none of those BTU's going into the house. After an hour on the phone with Honeywell, there is no work around for this. I guess I either need to replace the aquastat, or get a zone control relay.


If you are getting a large amount of cold water from the zone on a call for heat you need to either change the plumbing set up to a primary secondary, add a return tempering loop or otherwise keep the zone full of warmer water (allowing some gravity flow can help this). The basic problem that can occur with our boiler is related to a small 12 gallon capacity and the relatively slow response of coal Vs oil. Please send me a PM or give me a call (my cell number is in your manual) if you wish to discuss this further.
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: kstills On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:58 pm

plumber wrote:
Rob R. wrote:Do you use the tankless coil? If not, set the low limit at 140.


Yeah, I'm using the coil for now. If I had an indirect I'd set the low WAY down.


How low?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:09 pm

I'd probably run it down to 110-120
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL110/165 Boiler

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:18 pm

Matt and everyone reading this thread , don't think I'm knocking the boiler. The issue is due mostly to my house and the way it's piped. However, the aquastat is killing me! Today I got a little innovative. I installed a 3/4 tee before the boiler drain and piped a 3/4" line to the supply side after the spyrovent. Ran a 006 circ on constant power, now I have a nice boiler bypass at the low point of the boiler, bye bye stratification! It would be sweet if that tapping was at least 1 1/4" there's a lot of water below the return tapping. I also eliminated the aquastat issue by installing a zone control relay. When my cold zone calls, it drops the temp down to 135 ish very briefly. Now that its allowed to circulate it stays there very briefly, less than two minutes. Once the hot water completes the loop its over 160 quickly.

My other issue is completely my fault. I took advantage of the boiler being down and CLEANED it. I'm ashamed of myself. I'm surprised I had fire. The box under the grate was almost completely full of fines. Got to pat more attention to it. I also brushed the tubes, and got quite a bi of ash out. I need more maintenance.

How often should I clean this thing?
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL110/165 Boiler

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:18 pm

plumber wrote:I'd probably run it down to 110-120


You don't worry about water vapor in the burn chamber (here we go......)?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:20 pm

plumber wrote:Matt and everyone reading this thread , don't think I'm knocking the boiler. The issue is due mostly to my house and the way it's piped. However, the aquastat is killing me! Today I got a little innovative. I installed a 3/4 tee before the boiler drain and piped a 3/4" line to the supply side after the spyrovent. Ran a 006 circ on constant power, now I have a nice boiler bypass at the low point of the boiler, bye bye stratification! It would be sweet if that tapping was at least 1 1/4" there's a lot of water below the return tapping. I also eliminated the aquastat issue by installing a zone control relay. When my cold zone calls, it drops the temp down to 135 ish very briefly. Now that its allowed to circulate it stays there very briefly, less than two minutes. Once the hot water completes the loop its over 160 quickly.

My other issue is completely my fault. I took advantage of the boiler being down and CLEANED it. I'm ashamed of myself. I'm surprised I had fire. The box under the grate was almost completely full of fines. Got to pat more attention to it. I also brushed the tubes, and got quite a bi of ash out. I need more maintenance.

How often should I clean this thing?


I spoke to Axemen Anderson about the boiler design, and they put the return into the middle of the boiler to avoid shocking when you get the cold water returning to the boiler.

I put in a primary this fall, but I screwed up the piping also. I put the zones off the return line, instead of the feed.

Something to plan for next summer...
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: Matthaus On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:47 am

plumber wrote:snip... How often should I clean this thing?

The Dwyer 460 Airmeter is to monitor the draft in the base, when it gets below -.005" WC (1/2 of -.01) it is time to clean it, or if you have any sign of moisture in the hopper lid or slight Sulpher smell in the equipment room. Generally you need to vacuum out the top and rattle the economizers every ton of coal or so to get optimum efficiency. Make sure you have your Airmeter monitoring the draft in the base at all times, that way you will have advance notice of the requirement to clean.

I do understand the the folks here are asking questions not "bad mouthing" the Leisure Line product, we appreciate any and all feedback (even negative)! Thanks :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:08 pm

Thanks for understanding that, Matt. As I'm newer into coal burning, I'm trying to get the most knowledge possible. Overall, I'm very happy with your boiler. I'm trying to balance my heating knowledge with my lack of understanding of solid fuel. I am becoming a junkie of coal!!
As far as the top side, I clean the top and the tubes every Sunday morning and brush the tubes the 1st of every month. I have 2 Dwyer 25 manometers monitoring draft. One before the barometric damper and one in the base. I believe I keep the top side pretty clean.
However, I'm puzzled on required maintenance of the stoker itself, what routine should I follow there?
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL110/165 Boiler

Re: LL110 coal usage

PostBy: plumber On: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:16 pm

Also out of curiosity, how much can different coal affect consumption? Last year I burned bagged Blashak, this year I'm burning Jeddo. However, I did have to turn back my feed screw 2 1/2 turns.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL110/165 Boiler

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