under floor heating

under floor heating

PostBy: coalmeister On: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:23 pm

I had access to half a dozen 1-1/4 diameter steel pipes so I ran them under the kitchen floor, as my wife complains the floor is cold since I installed the coal boiler in the garage. I only have 1 zone for the entire house so I used the "taps' from a disconnected radiator. Got it all hooked up and now the water just doesn't bother to run through it :mad: Should i put a spare Taco pump on it and will it draw water through the other main Taco pump (I would need it to) when the main Taco is not running? Thanks!
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:55 pm

Is your existing system a monoflow setup?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: coalmeister On: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:34 pm

It has a main line in and out with each radiator teeing off from the pressure side and the return side.
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold


Re: under floor heating

PostBy: jim d On: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:49 pm

did you put a vent on it to get rid of the air ,all of the air either that or did you put a purge station on the line ??
jim d
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska//coaljck
Stove/Furnace Model: liberty// cj3

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: coalmeister On: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:03 pm

I thought about a vent of sorts but did not know how to vent all six 8' pipes? I ran water through before making the last connection but may not have got out all the air and I need to prevent it in the future I guess
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:19 pm

Monoflow systems are very sensaive to air, plus it is questionable if there is enough pressure drop between the two tee's to cause flow through 50' of pipe. I would start by adding a ball/purge valve just before the correction to the return tee.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: coalmeister On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:49 pm

I do have a ball valve there, should I close it off a bit? I have a spare Taco pump, should I add that at one end or the other? - Thanks!
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:53 pm

Adding a circulator won't help if there is air in the loop. You need to add a means of purging the air out.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: coalmeister On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:40 pm

Rob, Even if the pump is positioned in a vertical section that is always full of water?
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:16 pm

Even if the circulator is as you describe, it won't "push" an air pocket out of the system.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: jim d On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:10 pm

if you have a flooded suction on the circ it will push the air around if it is less than 6or 7 ft above the circ taco 007 aprox 8' head
jim d
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska//coaljck
Stove/Furnace Model: liberty// cj3

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: coalmeister On: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:24 pm

I could turn it into a "flooded suction" system long enough to get the air out
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: steamup On: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:41 pm

coalmeister wrote:I thought about a vent of sorts but did not know how to vent all six 8' pipes? I ran water through before making the last connection but may not have got out all the air and I need to prevent it in the future I guess



You will probably have to install a tee in your "radiator" at the high point to vent the air. 1-1/4" pipe is hard to vent by pushing the air with water even with a purge valve. The volume of water needed to purge is greater than the average purge valve can handle sometimes.

A tee with a reducer and a 4 inch nipple will make a great air collector. I will often use one and put a elbow on top and extend my air vent to get easier access. you can vent with a small ball valve or coin type air vent.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:29 pm

Was this an old MONO FLOW SYSTEM or was it originally dedicated supply and return piping?

it makes a difference and Ill bet the rest of the system will fail if you get it wrong
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: under floor heating

PostBy: coalmeister On: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:27 pm

Thanks for the help guys, I got it working! I drilled an air relief hole in the connector pipe between 2 of the main pipes and tipped the pipes up one end at a time, and "walked" the air out of each pipe going pipe to pipe to the relief hole. It actually works pretty well now, the floor is 81 degrees and I have not even insulated the pipe area yet. The floor was about 60-65 before. Cost me less than 50 bucks in fittings & connections. Next summer when the heat is off I will do the whole kitchen. :idea:
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold