My 520 Project

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:08 am

Very nice work!
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:57 am

Outstanding!
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:54 am

I would move the air scoop to the middle of the header pipe, they like 18" of straight flow before and after before a 90 turn. I am set like that and had more trouble getting the air out. I may replace mine with one of the spiro vents that don't have a minimum run before or after.
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: creek44 On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:06 pm

I wish that I could take credit for the plumbing. I am fortunate to know a plumber who does excellent work and is interested in this project. A few years back I may have tackled this, but I soon realized the value of his experience and workmanship.
As far as the air scoop goes, the Taco technical data sheet shows a minimum 18 inch straight run ahead of the scoop, but no mention of any minimums thereafter, unless I missed something. Thanks to all for your comments.
creek44
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:09 pm

STOP---

sorry for the bad news but if you want to do it right ;)

Move that air scoop back into the middle of the horizontal run
where it is now - it will only function as decoration

remember rule 48 of some I posted last week??? you do have the short nipple "post partum" but its too short -- and BTW the rule applies in both directions or refer back to rule 48

48. If you're using an air-scoop, install it right up against an elbow. It won't work, but it will look mighty fine!
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:23 pm

I quit at 65 last week

here are a few more

66. Back your truck over Junior's ten-speed. He shouldn't have left it in the garage in the first place.

67. Put a live ferret in the duct work of a scorched air system.

68. If the steam boiler manufacturer tells you to use two outlets, use one and reduce it by at least two sizes.

69. Use malleable fitting instead of cast-iron fittings on steam boiler replacements, and then think about the guy who will hit those fittings with a sledge hammer long after you're dead. He'll certainly be thinking about you when the sledge bounces off his forehead.

70. Wear two watches on each wrist, and then ask the customer what time it is.

71. Use 1-1/4" equalizers on gravity-return steam boilers.

72. Tell your customer you can't start the job on Wednesday because that's when you'll be meeting with your parole officer.

73. Let your customer's five-year-old son play with your torch.

74. If you bleed a radiator and you don't get any air, just keep on bleeding. The air is probably in there somewhere. Don't get discouraged if you still don't get any air after a few hours. Just keep bleeding.

75. Never install a throttling valve on a condensate pump's discharge line.

76. Feed boiler chemicals directly into the suction side of all pump's. Triple the quantity recommended by the chemical company.

77. Tell the customer your Hooked On Phonics tapes haven't arrived yet, and then ask him to read the boiler installation instructions to you.

78. Oversize everything except steam piping. Undersize steam piping.

79. During your coffee break, use the tip of your cigarette to burn your belly hair.

80. Have your barber buzz-cut a pentagram onto the back of your head.

81. When the customer is talking to you, find a scab on your arm or leg and pick it until it bleeds.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:32 pm

BTW??????

Where are those pumps going

In the RETURNS???? on those orphan pump flanges

pumping right at the fine expansion tank????


ummmm :shock: see Rule 54

53. Never use a steam header. Pipe directly from the boiler to the main.

54. Install all your circulators on the return side of the boiler, pumping right at the compression tank.

55. Blow off the low-water cutoff only when cement forms in the gauge glass.

56. Wear an I Love Satan baseball cap.
Last edited by Sting on Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:17 pm

EFM's installation manual shows the circulators mounted on the return. :roll: Of course there are advantages to having them pump away from the expansion tank, but I admit that when using low-head circulators & a wide open boiler things normally run fine. I've read Dan Holohan's and B&G's books on pumping away...and my hacked together system has them on the return. I inherited the oil boiler that way and the sytem runs fine the way it is...maybe someday when funds and time permit I will repipe it to match the books that sit on the shelf.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:30 pm

ok - so the EFM bible says to do it wrong

how does this change things -- there is piles of documentation on the public internet showing or offering retarded installation technique

OH -- and better yet -- folks that claim to have 12 years of "Professional" experience ----( doing things wrong )

OH well

It depends 8-)
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:41 pm

Lately "it depends" is the only thing I can say with any amount of confidence. :)

Like I said, putting the circulators on the return works fine for a lot of systems...your mileage may vary. 8-)
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:49 pm

Judging from the appearance of the old oil boiler I pulled out of my house, I'd have to guess that it was an origianl part of the house dating to 48 years ago when it was constructed, and it had the circulator pumping toward the boiler on the return side.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:53 pm

It probably had a B&G series 100 circulator, which has a very flat pump curve. If you put a high head circulator on the return of a system with lots of resistance to flow, it is possible to have serious air problems and/or cavitation.

B&G used to have a great video that demonstrated this...too bad I can't find it.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:56 pm

Rob R. wrote:It probably had a B&G series 100 circulator, which has a very flat pump curve. If you put a high head circulator on the return of a system with lots of resistance to flow, it is possible to have serious air problems and/or cavitation.

B&G used to have a great video that demonstrated this...too bad I can't find it.


It did have a B&G series 100. It leaked all the time.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:01 pm

listen boys and girls

I am not standing on my soapbox extolling the damnation of return pumping -- H E double hockey sticks - return pumping is the only way to make a temperature reducing loop work well with out big bucks switching and/or thermal reacting mixing .

GET THE POINT PLEASE

There are always three correct ways to do anything - some are more correct that others

and some other methods will range from "it worked like that for 48 years" (and don't get me wrong - thats wonderful) to the other end of "Just plain retarded"

The fact that a manufacturer uses tried and true methods of 48 years ago doesn't mean we all need to go back to driving 1964 Chevy's

So drag your self kicking and screaming into this century already!

OK -- My meds need to kick in while I go lay by my dish
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: My 520 Project

PostBy: creek44 On: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:37 pm

I called Taco and spoke with their technical support regarding the air scoop location. I explained how it was positioned. I am not saying what is right or wrong here. I am just passing along what they told me. They were not concerned about the close proximity of the TEE on the exit end. They were concerned about the minimum straight run ahead of the scoop. The phone number for Taco is (401) 942-8000 if anyone would like to call them. I would like to know if they would tell another person something different. The person I spoke with even put me on hold to verify what he told me after I questioned it.
creek44
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520