LL110k Boiler

Nice job John. It is nice to see you made it.

Thank You Matt, and thanks for the great boiler. I am still tweaking it in. But it works and works well

JPD, great job on the install and doing it yourself, must feel great to have unlimited hot water. I hope to get some hot water out of mine soon too so I may PM you and Freddy for some tips. Great looking boiler you have there. It was smart going for the back up oil as an option too. I would have done the same.

I guess you all have been watching the debates, and becoming politicians in your answers/statements !
The topic is about the main back up for 110,000 BTU boiler, manufactured recently, and I am simply indicating that to have an oil source heat as a back up is not the best option for heat.

Back up is meant for emergency/temporary use. When going on vacations, most frugal people ( these days we all have to be ) set the inside temperature at 50 and sometimes less.

You guys may want to insist on oil as back up is ok, but stick to the subject of backing up 110.000 BTU boiler when doing your calculation, not 300,000 or more.

Oil burner backup option of the 110.000 BTU boiler seems to have more perceived value with you guys , rather than practical value, if heating oil prices were what they used to be 10 years ago or so, I would agree with you, but they have been steadily going up, with no limit in sight, while the electric rates ( initially high compared to oil ) have remained steady or at a slight increase over the years.

I have seen plenty high quality American made electric heaters, but only at junkyards and Salvation Army stores, I agree that newer imported ones are cheaply made, but most everyone connected to this forum, seem to be pretty handy at picking up what's good and what's bad, newer heater with good quality , safety tilt switches and overheat switches are still found if you do your searches, they may not be the 19.95 but you can still find them.

I don't know where the 50 KW calculation enters into the picture, most rooms can be warmed ( not totally heated ) with 1000 Watts electric heater, 1500 watts is usually fair. an 8 room house at an average 1000 watts a room consumes 8 kwh an hour maximum , with the assumption of 100 % duty cycles on all heaters, and at today's rates ( 10 cents a kwh locally ) that's only about 20 Dollars maximum per day , and that's not really bad for a backup option.

CoalUserWannabe wrote:I guess you all have been watching the debates, and becoming politicians in your answers/statements !
The topic is about the main back up for 110,000 BTU boiler, manufactured recently, and I am simply indicating that to have an oil source heat as a back up is not the best option for heat.

Back up is meant for emergency/temporary use. When going on vacations, most frugal people ( these days we all have to be ) set the inside temperature at 50 and sometimes less.

You guys may want to insist on oil as back up is ok, but stick to the subject of backing up 110.000 BTU boiler when doing your calculation, not 300,000 or more.

Oil burner backup option of the 110.000 BTU boiler seems to have more perceived value with you guys , rather than practical value, if heating oil prices were what they used to be 10 years ago or so, I would agree with you, but they have been steadily going up, with no limit in sight, while the electric rates ( initially high compared to oil ) have remained steady or at a slight increase over the years.

I have seen plenty high quality American made electric heaters, but only at junkyards and Salvation Army stores, I agree that newer imported ones are cheaply made, but most everyone connected to this forum, seem to be pretty handy at picking up what's good and what's bad, newer heater with good quality , safety tilt switches and overheat switches are still found if you do your searches, they may not be the 19.95 but you can still find them.

I don't know where the 50 KW calculation enters into the picture, most rooms can be warmed ( not totally heated ) with 1000 Watts electric heater, 1500 watts is usually fair. an 8 room house at an average 1000 watts a room consumes 8 kwh an hour maximum , with the assumption of 100 % duty cycles on all heaters, and at today's rates ( 10 cents a kwh locally ) that's only about 20 Dollars maximum per day , and that's not really bad for a backup option.

You must work for the electric company.

Sure generation prices might be only $.10/kw but add in the other costs. And then you truly have the cost of electric heat. Most modern homes do not have the wiring to support electric space heaters. Gotta keep the costs low so they use lighter wire. And most electronis devices do not require the power of the old days, so the contractors cut back where they can.

Backup heat is used for the off times that someone may be on vacation and need to have a neighbor or family member stop by to check on their house. In most instances, it is all they can do to just stop by, let alone keep a close eye on your prize possession. Turn on the oil burner, go enjoy yourself and know that when you come back home, everything will be OK.

OK, lets stick to the backup of a 110K btu boiler, like you said,, how many 'high quality' electric heaters are going to equal the 110K btu??
AND, how are you going to supply electricity to those units?? most older homes have a 100 amp service, maybe a 150 amp.
My place is 200 amp and falls short when I'm doing a lot.

So, you have a typical older home with an oil tank, hot water baseboard heat, and you want to go with a coal boiler... are you going
to add a 200amp service to your home so you can have electic backup heat?? or take the already-in-the-price oil gun, and hook up a single
3/8" copper oil pipe to the gun??

We're only talking about the occasional long weekend or a weeks' vacation.. even one roll of 12-2-WG wire will cost more than the
'cost savings' between oil and electric, and this isn't including buying the 'high quality' electric units..

Like I said before, it's a standby heat source..

And, some areas of the country pay less than $.10 per KWH, in my area I pay $.17.9 per KWH, I'd rather burn diesel with road tax than electricity.


Greg L

Rick, you beat me to it,, and we have almost mirror images of thoughts and comments.

Greg L

Well, if I am in Michigan, I would agree with both of you, but here in the Pocono area, believe me , it's about the best electric rate in the country
10 cents a kwh is the total cost , not just generation cost !

We have more than few people moving from out of state, and they are always shocked how many if not most of the homes are built with all electric kitchen, electric drier, electric hot water heater, stove and everything else, I do know of a big 2500 Square foot house, whose owner told me she is on a budget plan with PP&L , my first thought was she is paying 300 and up per month, since she has electric heat as well, and as you know, they call the winters here "Brutal " in Pocono Summit it gets very cold. Anyway I was shocked to discover, her bill never went over 180 Dollars a month.

My Neighbor from Florida was thrilled with the rates, she does pottery, and ordered higher electric service so she can fire up her electric kiln !

For that price would you want to use oil ?

But ... Don't forget in the building codes solid fuel is defined as supplemental heat only. So you must have some kind of central heating system other than solid fuel. In addition, all building codes require that your heating system be adequate to heat the house to a living standard, not just keep it from freezing. It's up to you if you want to comply with the law. Rest assure there is a building code that applies to you, all states have state wide building and fire codes. Code enforcement is by local officials, so what you must do and what you can get away with varies.

CoalUserWannabe wrote:I guess you all have been watching the debates, and becoming politicians in your answers/statements !
The topic is about the main back up for 110,000 BTU boiler, manufactured recently, and I am simply indicating that to have an oil source heat as a back up is not the best option for heat.

No, the topic was simply LL 110 Boiler. From the OPs first entry he never implied he was looking for input regarding his choice of back up on it. You just rudely interjected that and it seems like you hijacked the thread for your own beliefs.

Clearly you feel strongly in your views on fuel choice back up. So, start a thread of your own, or better yet continue with a thread on that topic that already exists.

Here is at least one
BTU 'Rule Of Thumb' (stolen from electric baseboard 'ROT')

Well all I wanted to do was let people know I was finished on my boiler install. Never meant to cause a debate over what is considered to be the best method of back up heat. If you guys want to know my reasons for my choice I will tell you. I wanted to update my house with a new central heating system. I had oil fired hot air and I HATED IT. I have been burning coal in my house for 6 years now. Mostly hand fired units with the DS Machine Basement model #3 being my most recent. IT is a heating machine and I am never going to get rid of it. That is my back up. No electric involved. Good old hand fired heat. I researched all brands of stoker boilers. Thought of refurbing a few models. Especially a Van Wert VA- 400. But I like the Leisure Line reputation. For solidly built stoves, and exceptional customer satisfaction. And I also have had the pleasure of meeting Matt a few times. He has helped me out along the way in my coal burning experiances with various stoves. And guided me in modifing a Reading triburner stoker.
And the 2nd reason and one that I hope I dont have to worry about is, my health. Over the last 3 years I have been hospitalized for coranary artery blockages. And the strange thing is its always in the dead of winter. My wife who I love very much is not very good at taking care of the hand fired stoves. And my friend is able to switch over to the oil gun for me if any unforseen thing happens to me. I dont like electric heat.......I dont like paying over a 100 dollars a month to the electric company just for the normal usages, well pump, sewer pump grinder, stove,refridgerator, washer, dryer etc....

It sounds like you have done a fine job of reducing your heating costs and improving comfort at the same time. The oil burner makes perfect sense to me. Forward thinking...I like it.

The oil gun on the LL110k also allows for the time when the fan or stoker motor fails at 7pm on a Saturday in January. I can switch over to oil in 15 minutes and wait for Monday to get the new motor.

Of course, I'm going to eventually have both the new fan and new stoker motor sitting on my shelf at home, but it's nice to know that for now I don't have to worry about being without heat because of a motor failure.

And what JPD said about the customer service at Leisure Line. Incredible committment to their product.

jpd989, I can't believe you chose oil for you backup. I mean, what were you thinking? And coal for your primary? You should be ashamed of yourself. Ruining the earth with coal mining and supporting terrorism with oil? That's pretty low! In fact, I'm driving down your way this weekend just to rid you of that poor choice in boiler! It's the most American thing I can do for you.

Keep us posted on the LL110. Thoughts, tweaks, and observations. If I ever replace the KA-4, I'm leaning towards the LL110. Matt & Dave are great guys!

As others have already said: This unit does qualify as a primary heat source as required... This man can sell his home with this unit installed as is with the oil gun (or propane or Nat gas guns) that can be used as the primary if new owner doesn't want to heat with coal... Either way it is a fantastic boiler, tried and true components from two well known quality manufacturers integrated into one well built machine...

There is nothing "frugal" about plugging appliances into electrical outlets, either way you pay... It is splitting hairs to incur the costs of purchasing new electric heaters of sorts for every room in the house and then the cost to run them to boot compared to hanging the oil gun and going away for a long weekend or weeks worth of vacation...

I have to think that based on his comments that this guy doesn't own or drive a car, price of gas too high!!! The visual is "that guy" on a pedal bike at night with one of those tire driven generators to power his headlight!!! Ooop, sorry pal, didn't see ya there, you should really have a tail light on that thing if you're going to pedal around at night.......