what is our efficiency?

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:48 pm

coal bob wrote:
lsayre wrote: ds machine.I have the basement #4 which is rated at 130,000 btu. 40" height 28" wide 29" deep

Approx. 36 or 37 square feet surface. 3515 BTU per square foot, which is right in line with the Harman Mark3 and the Hitzer 50-93. So we are proving something, but I am not sure what. :lol: Of course, the stove manufacturers may be citing input BTU rather than output, but even so a graph for smaller stoves vs. larger ones is not a straight line and it seems like it ought to be. Guess I'll go to bed and see if thinking about it will put me to sleep....
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:19 pm

Berlin wrote:
VigIIPeaBurner wrote:Berlin, if there is enough oxygen available, CO will continue to burn off because it's an unbalanced molecule. There's a lot of reactions going on in the blue flames, some but not all attributed to burning methane. ---8<..

Yes, if there is enough oxygen available CO will form CO2 which is (CO) by far the predominant gas being burned in the "blue flames". A number of substances will burn with a bright blue flame, sulfur, CO, H, CH4 to name a few.

One of the important things that has to be remembered is that combustion of a complex hydrocarbon like coal is a process. --8<...


I think we're both saying just about the same thing. It's a complex process with some of the carbon oxides/hydrocarbons/methane from (the decomposition of) combustion creating visible light from the flame. Some of the flames are visible, others fall outside of our sight range. That's why back in the 19th and early 20th century coal gasification plants were so common. Many cities and towns had them. The hydrocarbon tar/gunk left behind after the coal was gasified remain as a legacy to the process at many of the gasification plant sites.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:24 pm

Hell Bob, I just fell asleep right here at the computer. :clap: toothy
rberq wrote:
coal bob wrote:
lsayre wrote: ds machine.I have the basement #4 which is rated at 130,000 btu. 40" height 28" wide 29" deep

Approx. 36 or 37 square feet surface. 3515 BTU per square foot, which is right in line with the Harman Mark3 and the Hitzer 50-93. So we are proving something, but I am not sure what. :lol: Of course, the stove manufacturers may be citing input BTU rather than output, but even so a graph for smaller stoves vs. larger ones is not a straight line and it seems like it ought to be. Guess I'll go to bed and see if thinking about it will put me to sleep....
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: coal bob On: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:43 pm

lsayre wrote:
coal bob wrote:
lsayre wrote:I wonder how many square feet of surface area the DS-1600 stove has?

Also, does anyone know the square inches of grate surface area for the various popular hand fired stoves?

I was thinking the same thing,forgot the ds machine.I have the basement #4 which is rated at 130,000 btu. 40" height 28" wide 29" deep, Fire box is 16x20 plus hopper....


I think the Basement #4 and the DS-1600 are dimensionally very similar, if not the same.

The original 1600 if memory serves me right was 96,000 btu, fire box 16x 16,and about a year and half ago they came out with the bigger ds 1600 like IOF has.Dont matter to me anyways, I love this stove it has worked out great so far been burning since nov 27 and just this weekend we started on our second skid of blackshack nut :D If i was running the propane. cost wise it would have been doubeld that.Ok enough, time for bed got three hour drive to work tomorrow :(
coal bob
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Ds machine basement#4 stove with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Nut anthracite
Other Heating: Propane
Stove/Furnace Make: ds machine
Stove/Furnace Model: basement #4 stove with hopper

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:11 am

coal bob wrote:The original 1600 if memory serves me right was 96,000 btu, fire box 16x 16,and about a year and half ago they came out with the bigger ds 1600 like IOF has.Dont matter to me anyways, I love this stove it has worked out great so far been burning since nov 27 and just this weekend we started on our second skid of blackshack nut :D If i was running the propane. cost wise it would have been doubeld that.Ok enough, time for bed got three hour drive to work tomorrow :(


The DS-1500 is the 96,000 BTU model. I've seen the larger DS-1600 in the showroom, but it is not listed in their printed literature.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: coal bob On: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:52 pm

Sorry about that fred im a very slow typer :(
coal bob
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Ds machine basement#4 stove with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Nut anthracite
Other Heating: Propane
Stove/Furnace Make: ds machine
Stove/Furnace Model: basement #4 stove with hopper

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:59 pm

freetown fred wrote:Hell Bob, I just fell asleep right here at the computer.

I do that all the time. Just hope I am not looking at *censored*, in case the wife comes over to wake me up. And what does that say about older age, that I could fall asleep looking at *censored*? :o
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: gowriel On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:44 pm

Does any of you that burn coal in stoves uses these "turbine hats" that use the force of wind to evacuate smoke from the stove?
Just an ideea of improving the burning of coals! :D
I'll use one for sure ; I got to this ideea after "contemplating" the addition of a centrifugal fan that would use electric energy just to force the gases out the chimney!
http://www.licitatii-electronice.ro/pro ... g17792.jpg
http://www.smoky.ro/public/galery/B-smoky-67921.jpg
There is english translation on site:
http://www.smoky.ro/ventilator-cosuri-de-fum.html
gowriel
 
Stove/Furnace Make: custom
Stove/Furnace Model: custom

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:02 pm

gowriel wrote:Does any of you that burn coal in stoves uses these "turbine hats" that use the force of wind to evacuate smoke from the stove?
Just an ideea of improving the burning of coals! :D
I'll use one for sure ; I got to this ideea after "contemplating" the addition of a centrifugal fan that would use electric energy just to force the gases out the chimney!
http://www.licitatii-electronice.ro/pro ... g17792.jpg
http://www.smoky.ro/public/galery/B-smoky-67921.jpg
There is english translation on site:
http://www.smoky.ro/ventilator-cosuri-de-fum.html


No.

There are few locations with a constant wind, and what happens when the wind stops???

Usually, a strong wind gives excess chimney draft, so "turbine" not required.

Arctic climate may be just the place...I don't know? :)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: gowriel On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:41 pm

@McGiever :
well , a coal stove doesn't "usually" works in summer days or nights except for a very very cold night in the desert :D , So from my knowledge inside a house in the winter there is a higher pressure than outside were there could be sometimes even minus 14 degrees Celsius (or 6-7 degrees Fahrenheit...) like there is where I live now , and even worse , because of the wind this temperature is felt as minus 19-20 degrees Celsius...
"Kind of cold" don't you think?
So in these conditions , even with no wind there will be a big difference between the barometric pressure from inside the house and the outside!
In these conditions, hot air from the stove will surely rise because the difference will be too big, and the wind turbine will still work and the gases will be "dragged outside by force" :D
I haven't tried it , but have seen it more and more on houses and it must work well, otherwise... who would sell and who would use a faulty thing by design?
By the way, some say this wind turbine was tried and tested in Romania(I don't REALLY think it was for the first time ever...)
Try opening the door while you are only in your underwear and feel for yourself how the wind "forces" really work :lol:
And when considering stack temperatures in some cases of about 150 degrees celsius OR MORE as I have seen in a topic around here(something like 400-470 degrees Fahrenheit and the owner switched back to wood from coal because I qoute "he couldn't get much heat in the house"... of course he couldn't > it was all out the chimney...), one must ask if a turbine like this is not the answer + a GOOD heat exchanger to keep most of the heat inside the house , and so to increase the efficiency of his stove!
I'll do just that : keep most of the heat inside the house and use a BIG wind turbine like the one http://www.smoky.ro/ventilator-cosuri-de-fum.html sells on their site!
An aluminium one , 300 mm diameter wich is about 120 dollars!
Light , good corosion resistance and a big "suction draft" :lol:
gowriel
 
Stove/Furnace Make: custom
Stove/Furnace Model: custom

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:06 pm

gowriel wrote:Does any of you that burn coal in stoves uses these "turbine hats" that use the force of wind to evacuate smoke from the stove?

I have seen the turbines used as attic ventilators. With the coal stove, the problem is often too much draft rather than too little, which is why many coal burners use a barometric damper. I would be concerned with a stove that dirty smoke or ash would gum up the turbine. I had one of those stationary draft-increasers for my wood stove, the one with round stainless steel bands that looks like an atom's electron shells. It helped a little bit. But with a wood stove, the thin broad steel bands were ideal for condensing creosote and had to be cleaned every month or so to keep from plugging up.
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rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:14 pm

http://www.luxurymetals.com/wind_directional_caps.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TEeKwBQ ... creen&NR=1


http://www.famcomfg.com/featured-products-html/wind-directional-chimney-cap-stainless-steel.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

Details

The FAMCO research team has proven that the most effective draft inducing chimney caps are those that separate the wind stream as it flows over the cap and those that rotate to align with the wind direction. The Wind Directional Cap does both to provide maximum drafting. In usage, the rotating hood is kept in proper position (relative to the wind) by the wind vane. Air movement past the hood creates a partial vacuum in the flue, enhancing draft efficiency and helping to prevent downdrafts. The WDC is engineered to slip over the O/D (outside diameter) of a single wall pipe and with the help of an adapter (WCA) fit inside an insulated or double wall pipe. Quality constructed in 28 gauge Galvanized or 26 gauge Stainless Steel.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:52 am

What is available in the way of wind guided directional caps for tile lined rectagonal chimneys?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: what is our efficiency?

PostBy: McGiever On: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:16 pm

lsayre wrote:What is available in the way of wind guided directional caps for tile lined rectagonal chimneys?


They have that covered( no pun intended) ;) , use the same round wind guided directional cap model and you would purchase an adapter that goes from your tile liner to install their stock round wind guided directional cap model.
Check out the *drop down tabs" @ this link:
http://www.famcomfg.com/chimney-caps-1/ ... steel.html
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Visit Lehigh Anthracite