Here come the KINKERS!!!

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: Dennis On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:49 pm

dlj wrote:don't have problems with my fire going out particularly. Rather I notice that the heat output isn't what I would expect as the clinkers take up space, suck out the heat and there is less space for good burning coal in the fire pot. But that's probably just the design of my stove. I can certainly see how the geometry you describe could result in loosing the fire. As far as having to let the fire go out to clean it, well, I've never met a stove yet I couldn't clean the clinkers out of and keep it going... One thing is learning your stove. It seems to me that each stove has it's preferred locations for forming clinkers. Once you get that figured out, then you have to figure out how to coax them to the top of the fire to get them out without them breaking up too much. You didn't mention using tongs, you got to have tongs to clean these out...


:idea: I request a video :idea: That might certianly be helpful for many members
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: dlj On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Smokeyja wrote:Greg this is usually the problem I have. I have found a way to not have to dump the fire but it's not 100% perfect. I left the coals almost burn out when it gets to the bottom where it's almost all ash and then I throw fat lighter wood on the coals and then I put a log on there and let it get burning after I have some wood ash I bust up the clinkers as best as I can from bottom and top. It restores a good heating fire again but it's probably just as easy to dump the stove. The only thing it saves me on is less ash being airborne and with the newborn I have started to be extra cautious of dust/ash . Hopefully the base heater I buy will solve most of these issues.


You method will work but I don't do it that way. First, I like to have a nice hot fire. I don't want it low for a couple reasons. First of all, you want the clinker real hot. When it gets cooler, it gets more brittle, a lot easier to have it break up into small pieces that are a real PITA. When it's real hot, it's sticky. It likes to stay together better. It still isn't easy to not break it up, but not as hard hot as it is cooler. Real cold it's nice and hard, but then your fire is out... No good in my book. I also like a nice hot fire because it's going to cool down during cleaning so it's easier to keep a good fire going if there is enough to start with. I don't think I'm generating much ash when I cleaning this way but I don't really know... The base heater will help you run at lower temps so you may not get clinkers in the first place. When it's cold like these past days, I run mine hot - like up pushing 700*F (and that's measured high up on the barrel) so I get clinkers.

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:57 pm

Dennis wrote:
dlj wrote:don't have problems with my fire going out particularly. Rather I notice that the heat output isn't what I would expect as the clinkers take up space, suck out the heat and there is less space for good burning coal in the fire pot. But that's probably just the design of my stove. I can certainly see how the geometry you describe could result in loosing the fire. As far as having to let the fire go out to clean it, well, I've never met a stove yet I couldn't clean the clinkers out of and keep it going... One thing is learning your stove. It seems to me that each stove has it's preferred locations for forming clinkers. Once you get that figured out, then you have to figure out how to coax them to the top of the fire to get them out without them breaking up too much. You didn't mention using tongs, you got to have tongs to clean these out...


:idea: I request a video :idea: That might certianly be helpful for many members



Yea you can put it on the member video (hopefully soon to be) sticky ;)

dlj wrote:
Smokeyja wrote:Greg this is usually the problem I have. I have found a way to not have to dump the fire but it's not 100% perfect. I left the coals almost burn out when it gets to the bottom where it's almost all ash and then I throw fat lighter wood on the coals and then I put a log on there and let it get burning after I have some wood ash I bust up the clinkers as best as I can from bottom and top. It restores a good heating fire again but it's probably just as easy to dump the stove. The only thing it saves me on is less ash being airborne and with the newborn I have started to be extra cautious of dust/ash . Hopefully the base heater I buy will solve most of these issues.


You method will work but I don't do it that way. First, I like to have a nice hot fire. I don't want it low for a couple reasons. First of all, you want the clinker real hot. When it gets cooler, it gets more brittle, a lot easier to have it break up into small pieces that are a real PITA. When it's real hot, it's sticky. It likes to stay together better. It still isn't easy to not break it up, but not as hard hot as it is cooler. Real cold it's nice and hard, but then your fire is out... No good in my book. I also like a nice hot fire because it's going to cool down during cleaning so it's easier to keep a good fire going if there is enough to start with. I don't think I'm generating much ash when I cleaning this way but I don't really know... The base heater will help you run at lower temps so you may not get clinkers in the first place. When it's cold like these past days, I run mine hot - like up pushing 700*F (and that's measured high up on the barrel) so I get clinkers.

dj


Dj , 700 is right about where I burn mine as well. If you see my video of me busting up clinkers under the member video thread you will see that it gets mighty hot on my hand at those temps. I need my welding gloves next time ;) .
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: dlj On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:23 pm

Smokeyja wrote:
Dennis wrote: :idea: I request a video :idea: That might certianly be helpful for many members


Yea you can put it on the member video (hopefully soon to be) sticky ;)

Dj , 700 is right about where I burn mine as well. If you see my video of me busting up clinkers under the member video thread you will see that it gets mighty hot on my hand at those temps. I need my welding gloves next time ;) .


I don't know about a video. I'll have to see how to make one. Maybe I an borrow one of my daughters cameras. If they'll let me ... :lol:

I looked at your video. You are pushing the clinkers down through your grates, you're also breaking them up a lot and don't really know if you've gotten them out or not... I'm not trying to criticize what you're doing, if it works that's great -just talking...

I don't know about a video... I'll see what I might be able to do... Can't say I'm real comfortable committing to doing one...

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:39 pm

dlj wrote:
Smokeyja wrote:
Dennis wrote: :idea: I request a video :idea: That might certianly be helpful for many members


Yea you can put it on the member video (hopefully soon to be) sticky ;)

Dj , 700 is right about where I burn mine as well. If you see my video of me busting up clinkers under the member video thread you will see that it gets mighty hot on my hand at those temps. I need my welding gloves next time ;) .


I don't know about a video. I'll have to see how to make one. Maybe I an borrow one of my daughters cameras. If they'll let me ... :lol:

I looked at your video. You are pushing the clinkers down through your grates, you're also breaking them up a lot and don't really know if you've gotten them out or not... I'm not trying to criticize what you're doing, if it works that's great -just talking...


I don't know about a video... I'll see what I might be able to do... Can't say I'm real comfortable committing to doing one...

dj


I understand. I take all critiquing as constructive here. You are right I don't do a great job of it because I don't get them all through but the way this grate is designed try just won't fall through. So in your method , are you suggesting pulling them up through the coal bed? As far as what I was doing in the video, I follow it with a 1/4 rod underneath to help the pieces of the clinkers come out. It's working pretty good so far . I'm goin to keep working at my
Methods though . I will hopefully have a longer video of the full process soon
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: dlj On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:09 pm

Smokeyja wrote:I understand. I take all critiquing as constructive here. You are right I don't do a great job of it because I don't get them all through but the way this grate is designed try just won't fall through. So in your method , are you suggesting pulling them up through the coal bed? As far as what I was doing in the video, I follow it with a 1/4 rod underneath to help the pieces of the clinkers come out. It's working pretty good so far . I'm goin to keep working at my
Methods though . I will hopefully have a longer video of the full process soon


Yes, I pull them out the top. But that stove you have doesn't have a lot of space up top to work. So for your stove, you may do OK trying to push them down through. A lot more work though. And it's going to be really hard to know if you got them all out, or at least most of them. I don't like breaking them up because then you can get a lot of little small pieces that will just congeal again in short order. I also like to see that I've actually gotten them out... I'm going to try to do something on video. Not sure how right now. There's several issues, if I borrow one of the girls cameras, and then I don't have much of any clinkers, then it makes for a not so useful video. That's going to be a little hit and miss...And I can't be sure I'll be able to shoot a video at the same time as actually doing the cleaning... I use both hands...

I think the first thing one needs to learn with clinkers is how to identify them. In your video, you are working pretty hard. I work a lot "softer". You have to be able to feel them. When they are down in the fire, you can't see them much at all, that doesn't happen until you are bringing them up closer to the top of the fire. To start, it's all feel... Then as you get them up, you can see them and then grab them with tongs... Oh, I also use a lot longer tools then you are using there....

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: Dennis On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:23 pm

dj,

can you break up the klinkers on the bottom and let them there untill the next time you shake down and will they shake out or will the continue to fuse togather.

I have small pieces that resemebles clinkers the size of pea coal or smaller and crumbles in my fingers. Do you consider them clinkers.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: dlj On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:33 pm

Dennis wrote:dj,

can you break up the klinkers on the bottom and let them there untill the next time you shake down and will they shake out or will the continue to fuse togather.

I have small pieces that resemebles clinkers the size of pea coal or smaller and crumbles in my fingers. Do you consider them clinkers.


That depends upon how hot you are running your fire. If it's running hot, they should fuse together. If you backed off the temp, then they may just stay small.

How are you seeing those small clinkers? When you say they crumble in your fingers, is that cold? Clinkers when they are cold can be pretty hard, but they will crumble. When they are cold, they are usually kind of glassy. In my stove small clinkers like that would just shake through, I wouldn't even notice them...

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: Dennis On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:42 pm

I usually look in the trash can after it cools down. My grates have no problems with them. I have a boiler and a 13" deep bed with a combustion blower, so its always glowing at the bottom. Never have problems with heat either, the blower just pushes the air thru the bed.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: SteveZee On: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:47 am

DJ, You are talking about true high temp fused clinckers and your method makes sense. In my stove there is an actually clicker door (that small one) thats right at the grate top level. I never use it though as it's just too messy.

I think many of the folks on this thread (including me) are not dealing with a "true" clinker but more "bridging ash". That stuff that can accumulate on the side of the pot or usually in the center of a conical pot that creates air space/ash space. This stuff is just fused ash that does break easily enough, but has to be poked down because over time, it will grow and half smother a fire or take up enough space that you fill up but actually don't have a full load and lose the burn time that is normal.
A true clinker, once made usually isn't going anywhere untill it gets fished out.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: Smokeyja On: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:19 pm

SteveZee wrote:DJ, You are talking about true high temp fused clinckers and your method makes sense. In my stove there is an actually clicker door (that small one) thats right at the grate top level. I never use it though as it's just too messy.

I think many of the folks on this thread (including me) are not dealing with a "true" clinker but more "bridging ash". That stuff that can accumulate on the side of the pot or usually in the center of a conical pot that creates air space/ash space. This stuff is just fused ash that does break easily enough, but has to be poked down because over time, it will grow and half smother a fire or take up enough space that you fill up but actually don't have a full load and lose the burn time that is normal.
A true clinker, once made usually isn't going anywhere untill it gets fished out.


I have a few of those true ones . I'm like DJ and burn pretty hot and like today I have to clean her out. I decided to shut the stove down and do some cleaning. This time the Cannon heater is going it its place for a night. I have some great photos of these large suckers lol
Smokeyja
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: LudlowLou On: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:48 pm

Lightning wrote:Hey partner, I have a similar firebox, long with the V shape - probably same grate system. I made a tool out of bracing material to deal with the clinker issue. I took several pictures to show you. The smaller end I twisted into a 90 degree angle. This is the end that I push up from underneath between the grate and the grate frame. I thrust it back and forth (front to back) to bust clinkers into small peices that will shake down thru the grates. It seems to be working very well for me so far! I've been running the same fire for over 3 weeks now. Maybe you could try something like this. I hope this helps :D


Hey, Lightning....

Just got back from Home Depot with a 48" strip of that strapping your using, and a 48" piece of 1/4" rod. I will attempt to fashion 2 clinker tools. One to use as you have subscribed, and another which was also posted (rod) which should actually fit through the grates rather than the edges like your tool. Got some fabrication question for you. Based on your pics (thanks by the way) it looks like the vertical dimension is aprox. 3". How did you determine this? trial and error? measuements? LOU
LudlowLou
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Norseman 2500

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:22 pm

I didn't really plan how it turned out. I was desperate to make something and that piece of angle brace happened to be in view. I just took a good look at the clearance I needed to get it under the grates and kinda guessed. First I twisted the end and then bent it up 90 degrees and pounded the twist flat by pounding downward on the vertical stub. Its a tight fit moving it around from one side of the grates to the other. If I could do it over, I would make the "slicer" part of it a 1/4 inch shorter. I probably will at some point make a better version out of some better materials. But for now its doing the job quite well.

I also plan to get a rod to poke up thru the center holes in the grates like you descibe. My center holes don't really have any glow radiating down thru at this point. I'm sure they are bound up with ash and clinker funk. Although it is burning very well just from me slicing along the sides like I've been doing :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:29 pm

EasyRay wrote:*** Unless I have to for some reason, I'll not go back to a hand fed.****

Hey Greg what ever happened to that TLC 2000 you were working on.


It's out in the barn, in the line up of unfinished projects.. that line is getting long !!

I bought it to have a spare stove for emergency situations with no electricity. but I've not found time to work on it or figure out a chimney.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Here come the KINKERS!!!

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:46 pm

LudlowLou wrote:Hey, Lightning....

Just got back from Home Depot with a 48" strip of that strapping your using, and a 48" piece of 1/4" rod. I will attempt to fashion 2 clinker tools. One to use as you have subscribed, and another which was also posted (rod) which should actually fit through the grates rather than the edges like your tool. Got some fabrication question for you. Based on your pics (thanks by the way) it looks like the vertical dimension is aprox. 3". How did you determine this? trial and error? measuements? LOU


I'd be interested to see some pics of what you came up with :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Visit Hitzer Stoves